shaaark89

august 26-28 at summit point. september 9-11 at vir.

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net

Glen,

Not sure about your DEs, but around here we pass by "point by" even in the instructor group, so it is rare that I can run all out for more than a lap at a time. As opposed to racing where we pass everywhere and all the time in all sessions, not just the race.

GlenL

Stan,

Sure. It's the same here, although the top group passes anywhere...but that's not mine. With groups done mainly by lap times, I'm not hung up on slow traffic much. It does happen, though. There are times when I'll put together 4 or 5 laps without a pass. Folks are pretty good about letting you by and that's always a straight. Vroooom.

I was thinking that a good measure of engine stress would be gallons of gas per hour. What percent more do you think is used in races as opposed to DEs?

Gnarly 928

Thank you, Tahoe Shark!
Geeze, guys, especially Tony and Shane..I ask a question and get attacks back? What's with that?
OK, Shane, now, it may be possible to take $30k and build a dependable SC 928, but..."has anyone done it"? That was the original question. Ok, Tony, yeah, I had lots of people lie to me during the build of my as yet untested motor, so yes, it took a whole year to get done...Does that make a Supercharged motor better than a stroker? Dunno, don't care.
Just wondered if anyone had any experience with running a forced induction 928 in competition yet, and it seems the answer may be "no, not yet" though it is interesting to hear from those who've been tracking theirs.
We know about the reliabiltiy of N/A 928s in competition. The data is available on how they've done. My own Devek stroker had hundreds of race hours and was still in fine shape putting down 440 rwhp after three full seasons of racing. Until 'driver error' and some not so great oil line routing caused me to destroy that motor.
Many stock displacment 928s have now been racing for some years, also. One can go to the results pages of various race groups and SEE the results of all these NA cars, in competition. My question was/is how are the forced induction cars doing at the track, or are any are being used there. A few SC guys replied with their experience at DE days, but some of youse street SC guys seem to think I was "dissin your ride" or something..Not so..
And Shane, if I had 'oodles' of disposable income I could get a used GT3 cup car for around $60k, just twice what you say I spent on my new, untested, two years in the building shi**t old stroker...(sorry, shouldn't respond like this, but that is a sore point right now)
BTW. DE events, while much more intense than a romp through the mountains, are not racing. A typical DE lap is about the same as a warm up lap at a race..DE laps, unless you happen to be really lucky with traffic, almost always end up with you "lifting" when you come upon a slower car. You rarely do that in a race, except during practice or warm up. A warm up or a race practice lap, you take at a 'safe' relaxed pace, perhaps 8/10ths of race speed, about the same pace as is tolerated at a DE..You start hanging it out, locking up wheels, putting two tires off, etc at a DE, and you (rightfully) will be "talked to" by the stewards ..Not really the same as racing.
So, so far we've heard of the one SC car thats been lapping successfully for a couple of seasons, if I read that right, and one that has done a half day of DE without any problems to speak of. Anybody else? Anybody raced one of these beasts? They have to be fast enough...Curious, not even trying to make my own pp look big...

Don Hanson

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net

Hi Glen,

I really don't know how many gallons I use in either. I just add as needed

I think Don's response above is about what I feel as well.

I would again point out that when racing, I will be much closer to the car in front of me. Perhaps I shouldn't be, but I presume the racer is less likely to do something surprising. In DE's (even in the instructor's group) I have seen really strange behavior. Not to say that doesn't exist with the PCA racers, but just not as much.

Other's may have different experiences.....

Jim_H

Clean laps without having to lift for slower cars are the norm for us PNW guys. We have the Spokane Raceway pretty much all to ourselves twice a year. It is sweeeeet. Most the time... You can get lotsa laps in without even seeing another car.
For the most part if we aren't WOT it's because we are massaging a turn. Or not...

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net

Hi Jim,

Clean laps are rare in the race conditions I see, so if heat build up is an issue for an SC car, then I would worry about how it would deal with the traffic.

I am not saying an SC car wouldn't be great, but I won't be convinced until someone has proven it.

Jim_H

FWIW,

I think I know Don well enough to say this wasn't meant as an us vs them thing.
He seems to be a pretty humble guy to me.

bcdavis

Where is Quick Carl in this discussion?

I know he runs his SC OB at the track all the time...

He has video after video of his track days...

http://www.928motorsports.com/ourvideos.html

bcdavis

And Tilo ran his "Big Bird" for years successfully, before selling it to Tom...

Shane

Sorry! Didn't mean to hack on ya, just that I have seen these questions come from you before. Yes I put my car on the track for a day without any issues, other than the lack of brakes it was a great day. Yep it could not be considered racing when I was only getting four hot laps before the brakes started fading.

What I was getting at was it takes quite a bit more than just a high HP motor to go racing as you know. You need the whole package. Then you have to be able to get to and from the track, unless you go like Mark K and drive to and from. I would very much like to take a 928 and do this, just to see how it would hold up at the track and how it would fare against the competition. Maybe someday down the road I will, time and money right? If I do though it will be with an engine that is built specific for boost, rather than just bolting a SC on a stock engine and goin' racin.

mark kibort

Im right about 5 gals per mile in my racing. I have logged about 20 straight sessions where 80% of the time i run the practice, qual or race and the fuel light comes on on the last lap, or cool down lap!
I think anderson is about 4 gals per mile at 150 more rear wheel hp . I have a poor mans telemetry system. WOT light on the dash. at laguna, total time WOT is 50 seconds on a 1:40 lap.

Tilos car was very fast in a race i saw him run with anderson in. However, the supercharger blew the hose and was NA for most of the race. he ran in our race before that enduro , and i have video of him passing me at 140mph down the back stretch of Buttonwillow in '97. Lots of fun!

mk

Malibu310

You all know our experience with the Blower Motor (blows up constantly) in the Yellow 928, that said, a 6-71 GMC blower was never meant for anything other than race - Rebuild type of competition (hence we do not compete). But that is 1950's technology. I just sold my SLK 32 with a roots type blower and over 50,000 mile of extremely hard driving (three sets of tires), and in that 50,000 miles it still did not use any oil, nor gave me any trouble.

I think the trick is to built the engine up with very strong internals (we did that eventually with our blower motor, that seems to be holding up good now), and intercool the hell out of the system. This combined with the software from the factory that protects the engine under any circumstance would provide reliability. The question is that can you do that to a 928?

Gnarly 928

5 Gallons per mile? Really! Good thing you don't run at Road America..You would be hard pressed to make one complete lap..(smiley face) My fuel consumption racing with my Devek motor was at 5 minutes per gallon..20 minute session= 4 gallons(+/-) 90 minute enduros, I run with "a splash" needed I usually start with around 18 gallons in my 20 gallon fuel cell and add one 6 gallon can to finish with. I am only guessing so far, but I think my Louie/Devek individual TB intakes will be a bit more fuel efficient, given the injectors will now fire sequentially rather than "batch fire" and the air fuel ratio can be precisley controlled with the EMS, rather than going very very rich at high rpms like happened with my old computer/intake set-up..
Shane, and all. I have asked about the track record of the forced induction cars before, yes. Since I saw my first blown 928 almost 3 years ago, I was wondering if anyone had gone on to race one yet, and how the "learning curve" was going with these types of cars. If I could plug-N-play a SC motor into my chassis for much less that building a stroker, that would be very cool. But racing an unproven 'development' motor (which I will be doing now anyhow to a lesser degree with my new intake and EMS) is beyond my financial means at this time. So I am going with an evolution of the well tested stroker, hoping the new fuel delivery system won't be too tricky and cause me lots of problems when I get back to the track..
Don Hanson

shaaark89

i get about 4 minutes per gallon with mine.
don, as you may know, my engine was built from the ground up to be what it is. it has all forged internals and slightly lower than stock compression as well as different head gaskets and head studs. essentially a stroker built to run with forced induction. i'm sure thats a good part of why i have very little issue with it and i would guess that it should stay the same if i chose to run it in a more competitive environment than drivers ed. it would be interesting to see what a stock internal motor with boost would do over time on the track.