Aquatune?
08-09-2005, 01:29 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
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Aquatune?
I was checking out a GTS on e-bay a minute ago and there was mention made of a water injection system from aquatune. Anyone know what the deal is with this setup? Is this snake oil or what?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...QQcmdZViewItem
www.aquatune.com
They have the requisite pictures and testimonials on their website and they even show a 5.7L (?) nitrous charged 928 engine with their kit installed. No real claims other than "adds 30% more HP" and "the P-38 Lightning used water injection too."
They have a "plus" system that claims to crack water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen by way of atomization and electrolysis and then duct this into the intake. I don't know about this....but it smacks of malarchy to me.
Oh, the water distributor blocks do come in a really cool magenta anodizing. I guess that is meant to offset the use of the Safeway brand water bottles and Ace hardware tubing.
Apparently this car is serviced by DEVEK, anyone from San Mateo want to chime in? Isn't it a bit odd that this person was able to add an x-pipe, water injection, rrfpr, and various and sundry other bits, but can't get an intermitent light taken care of at the dealership?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...QQcmdZViewItem
www.aquatune.com
They have the requisite pictures and testimonials on their website and they even show a 5.7L (?) nitrous charged 928 engine with their kit installed. No real claims other than "adds 30% more HP" and "the P-38 Lightning used water injection too."
They have a "plus" system that claims to crack water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen by way of atomization and electrolysis and then duct this into the intake. I don't know about this....but it smacks of malarchy to me.
Oh, the water distributor blocks do come in a really cool magenta anodizing. I guess that is meant to offset the use of the Safeway brand water bottles and Ace hardware tubing.
Apparently this car is serviced by DEVEK, anyone from San Mateo want to chime in? Isn't it a bit odd that this person was able to add an x-pipe, water injection, rrfpr, and various and sundry other bits, but can't get an intermitent light taken care of at the dealership?
08-09-2005, 02:19 AM
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If you are asking if water injection is malarky the answer is no. Is this company set up malarky? I don't know. Brendan is installing water injection on his engine.
I bought my White 90 GT from Mike. It was pretty much as advertised. Though now that I think about it I really need the stock chip he promised me...
He has only had the GTS 3 - 4 months. I would be interested in seeing the 390hp dyno sheet.
I bought my White 90 GT from Mike. It was pretty much as advertised. Though now that I think about it I really need the stock chip he promised me...
He has only had the GTS 3 - 4 months. I would be interested in seeing the 390hp dyno sheet.
08-09-2005, 02:30 AM
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THE CONCEPT of injecting water into the internal combustion engine has been around for over 50 years. But the desire to extract more power from the standard production engine has increased at a neck-breaking speed. ERL has just revived this old principle, applying the latest techniques in both electronic and mechanical engineering to take water injection into the next millennium.
WATER? Water exists mainly in a liquid state because that is its most stable inter-molecular structure. When we apply heat energy to it, its molecules begin to expand: a great deal of heat is absorbed during this process owing to water's specific heat capacity - approximately 4.2kJ/(kg.K). When the water changes from the liquid to gas state, large amount of heat energy is consumed in sustaining the process. The latent heat of evaporation is 2256kJ/kg, approximately six times more than gasoline!
SO WHAT? Because of its huge specific- and latent- heat capacity, water is the perfect liquid for regulating excess heat under certain engine-operating conditions, for example induction charge air cooling; but its biggest contribution is inside the combustion chamber where, under excessive loading, pre-ignition and detonation can otherwise occur. Such abnormal combustion is particularly common in force induction engines, where exhaust temperature can exceed 1100°C!
WHAT CHANCE has a piston got under these conditions, given that aluminium melts at 660°C? 99% of production cars keep exhaust temperature below 850°C by fuel-dumping, and hold crown temperature below 550°C by conduction to the underside and skirt of the piston, which is constantly being quenched by engine oil. Most of the heat is transferred to the cylinder wall. Simple and wonderful solutions, but ...
TURBO-CARS are easily upgraded just by adjusting the boost pressure and adding a commercially-available pre-programmed chip; but the hidden drawback of this solution is that even more fuel is being dumped -- as a coolant! -- to compensate for standard engine-cooling arrangements (inside the engine bay your fast-road car has more-or-less the same radiators and cooling fans as the family car next door). But as you upgrade your power-upgrade, you will get to the point where the fuel becomes so rich, and the flame is burning so slowly, that power is being lost rather than gained.
WORSE STILL your piston is no longer being lubricated properly: bore-wash is taking its toll of the pistons. You might decide to combat this with a very special synthetic oil, developed from years of research, which helped some car to win a few championships last season. Your favourite racing-driver recommends it on TV, so of course you want to believe him. But have you ever wondered why he has to get his engine rebuilt after every race?
HELP! Help is indeed at hand! The ERL Aquamist system, using sophisticated electronics to process engine-data, injects a precisely-metered quantity of coolant: not gasoline, but water, six times more effective, and freely available! We eliminate fuel-dumping, leaving your air/fuel ratio unaffected, enabling maximum power to be extracted from the engine. To ensure that each cylinder receives exactly the same dosage, we deliver the coolant in a fine mist: not only does Aquamist eliminate piston-ring damage ... it steam-cleans your engine with every stroke!
THERE'S MORE ... The Aquamist system offers a full range of diagnostic features, enabling you to detect blocked nozzles, cut water-pipes, and all sorts of other smashing things. If track record and expertise is what you want, don't wait for your favourite racing driver to tell you about Aquamist on TV: it might be too late ...
WATER? Water exists mainly in a liquid state because that is its most stable inter-molecular structure. When we apply heat energy to it, its molecules begin to expand: a great deal of heat is absorbed during this process owing to water's specific heat capacity - approximately 4.2kJ/(kg.K). When the water changes from the liquid to gas state, large amount of heat energy is consumed in sustaining the process. The latent heat of evaporation is 2256kJ/kg, approximately six times more than gasoline!
SO WHAT? Because of its huge specific- and latent- heat capacity, water is the perfect liquid for regulating excess heat under certain engine-operating conditions, for example induction charge air cooling; but its biggest contribution is inside the combustion chamber where, under excessive loading, pre-ignition and detonation can otherwise occur. Such abnormal combustion is particularly common in force induction engines, where exhaust temperature can exceed 1100°C!
WHAT CHANCE has a piston got under these conditions, given that aluminium melts at 660°C? 99% of production cars keep exhaust temperature below 850°C by fuel-dumping, and hold crown temperature below 550°C by conduction to the underside and skirt of the piston, which is constantly being quenched by engine oil. Most of the heat is transferred to the cylinder wall. Simple and wonderful solutions, but ...
TURBO-CARS are easily upgraded just by adjusting the boost pressure and adding a commercially-available pre-programmed chip; but the hidden drawback of this solution is that even more fuel is being dumped -- as a coolant! -- to compensate for standard engine-cooling arrangements (inside the engine bay your fast-road car has more-or-less the same radiators and cooling fans as the family car next door). But as you upgrade your power-upgrade, you will get to the point where the fuel becomes so rich, and the flame is burning so slowly, that power is being lost rather than gained.
WORSE STILL your piston is no longer being lubricated properly: bore-wash is taking its toll of the pistons. You might decide to combat this with a very special synthetic oil, developed from years of research, which helped some car to win a few championships last season. Your favourite racing-driver recommends it on TV, so of course you want to believe him. But have you ever wondered why he has to get his engine rebuilt after every race?
HELP! Help is indeed at hand! The ERL Aquamist system, using sophisticated electronics to process engine-data, injects a precisely-metered quantity of coolant: not gasoline, but water, six times more effective, and freely available! We eliminate fuel-dumping, leaving your air/fuel ratio unaffected, enabling maximum power to be extracted from the engine. To ensure that each cylinder receives exactly the same dosage, we deliver the coolant in a fine mist: not only does Aquamist eliminate piston-ring damage ... it steam-cleans your engine with every stroke!
THERE'S MORE ... The Aquamist system offers a full range of diagnostic features, enabling you to detect blocked nozzles, cut water-pipes, and all sorts of other smashing things. If track record and expertise is what you want, don't wait for your favourite racing driver to tell you about Aquamist on TV: it might be too late ...
08-09-2005, 02:44 AM
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I am refreshing myself on how it works... found this too.
How a water injection system works
Water injection systems are predominantly useful in forced induction (turbocharged or supercharged), internal combustion engines. Only in extreme cases such as very high compression ratios, very low octane fuel or too much ignition advance can it benefit a normally aspirated engine. The system has been around for a long time since it was already used in some World War II aircraft engines.
A water injection system works similarly to a fuel injection system only it injects water instead of fuel. Water injection is not to be confused with water spraying on the intercooler's surface, water spraying is much less efficient and far less sophisticated.
A turbocharger essentially compresses the air going into the engine in order to force more air than it would be possible using the atmospheric pressure. More air into the engine means automatically that more fuel has to be injected in order to maintain the appropriate stoechiometric value of the air/fuel ratio (around 14:1). More air and fuel into the engine leads to more power. However by compressing the inlet air the turbocharger also heats it. Higher air temperatures lead to thinner air and therefore an altered stoechiometric ratio which results to richer mixtures. Over-heated air intake temperatures can cause detonation.
Detonation, an effect also known as engine knock or pinging, occurs when the air/fuel mixture ignites prematurely or burns incorrectly. In normal engine operation the flame front travels from the spark plug across the cylinder in a predefined pattern. Peak chamber pressure occurs at around 12 degrees after TDC and the piston is pushed down the bore.
In some cases and for reasons such as a poor mixture, too high engine or inlet temperatures, too low octane fuels, too much ignition advance, too much turbo boost, etc. the primary flame front initiated by the spark plug may be followed by a second flame front. The chamber pressure then rises too rapidly for piston movement to relieve it. The pressure and temperature become so great that all the mixture in the chamber explodes in an uncontrolled manner. If the force of that explosion is severe some of the engine's moving parts (pistons, rods, valves, crank) will be destroyed.
Detonation, in any engine, should always be avoided by either lowering inlet temperatures, using higher octane fuel, retarding ignition (hence lowering engine output), lowering engine blow-by (a situation in which high crankcase pressure sends oil fumes back inside the combustion chamber), running the engine a little richer than at the stoechiometric ratio, lowering the compression ratio and/or boost pressure, ... .
Water injection is used to lower in-cylinder temperatures and burn the air/fuel mixture more efficiently thus helping avoid detonation.
In high pressure turbocharged engines the air/fuel mixture that enters the cylinders can, in some cases, explode prematurely (before the spark plug ignites) due to the extreme engine environment conditions. This situation is extremely destructive and results in severe engine damage (piston piercing). To avoid damaging the engine by detonation or pre-ignition phenomena, water is injected, along with fuel, in the combustion chambers in order to provide a water/air/fuel mixture which not only burns more efficiently and avoids detonation or pre-ignition but also provides additional inlet air cooling and, hence, denser air. The sole function of water injection is avoiding detonation.
There are mainly three variations of water injection systems. They are dependent of the location of the water injectors. The first technique consists of injecting water at the entrance of the intake manifold. The second injects water at the exit pipe of the intercooler. The third technique injects water at the entry of the intercooler and is only used in competition vehicles. In this latter variation most of the in-cylinder detonation prevention is done by injecting additional fuel which is then used as coolant (i.e. is not burned) and runs the engine above the stoechiometric ratio (i.e. rich).
How water injection works
The system is, usually, made up of 3 elements:
A water injector (similar to a fuel injector)
A high pressure pump (capable of attaining at least 3 to 4 bar pressure and sometimes even more)
A pressure sensor connected to the inlet manifold
An inlet air temperature sensor
Usually a water injection system is engaged when the inlet air temperature is exceeding a certain value, typically 40 degrees Celsius, and the engine is on boost. The most advanced systems add to the above electronic circuitry that provides 3D cartography similar to what is used in fuel injection systems. Cartography based devices take into account many more parameters such air/fuel ratio, throttle position and so on
How a water injection system works
Water injection systems are predominantly useful in forced induction (turbocharged or supercharged), internal combustion engines. Only in extreme cases such as very high compression ratios, very low octane fuel or too much ignition advance can it benefit a normally aspirated engine. The system has been around for a long time since it was already used in some World War II aircraft engines.
A water injection system works similarly to a fuel injection system only it injects water instead of fuel. Water injection is not to be confused with water spraying on the intercooler's surface, water spraying is much less efficient and far less sophisticated.
A turbocharger essentially compresses the air going into the engine in order to force more air than it would be possible using the atmospheric pressure. More air into the engine means automatically that more fuel has to be injected in order to maintain the appropriate stoechiometric value of the air/fuel ratio (around 14:1). More air and fuel into the engine leads to more power. However by compressing the inlet air the turbocharger also heats it. Higher air temperatures lead to thinner air and therefore an altered stoechiometric ratio which results to richer mixtures. Over-heated air intake temperatures can cause detonation.
Detonation, an effect also known as engine knock or pinging, occurs when the air/fuel mixture ignites prematurely or burns incorrectly. In normal engine operation the flame front travels from the spark plug across the cylinder in a predefined pattern. Peak chamber pressure occurs at around 12 degrees after TDC and the piston is pushed down the bore.
In some cases and for reasons such as a poor mixture, too high engine or inlet temperatures, too low octane fuels, too much ignition advance, too much turbo boost, etc. the primary flame front initiated by the spark plug may be followed by a second flame front. The chamber pressure then rises too rapidly for piston movement to relieve it. The pressure and temperature become so great that all the mixture in the chamber explodes in an uncontrolled manner. If the force of that explosion is severe some of the engine's moving parts (pistons, rods, valves, crank) will be destroyed.
Detonation, in any engine, should always be avoided by either lowering inlet temperatures, using higher octane fuel, retarding ignition (hence lowering engine output), lowering engine blow-by (a situation in which high crankcase pressure sends oil fumes back inside the combustion chamber), running the engine a little richer than at the stoechiometric ratio, lowering the compression ratio and/or boost pressure, ... .
Water injection is used to lower in-cylinder temperatures and burn the air/fuel mixture more efficiently thus helping avoid detonation.
In high pressure turbocharged engines the air/fuel mixture that enters the cylinders can, in some cases, explode prematurely (before the spark plug ignites) due to the extreme engine environment conditions. This situation is extremely destructive and results in severe engine damage (piston piercing). To avoid damaging the engine by detonation or pre-ignition phenomena, water is injected, along with fuel, in the combustion chambers in order to provide a water/air/fuel mixture which not only burns more efficiently and avoids detonation or pre-ignition but also provides additional inlet air cooling and, hence, denser air. The sole function of water injection is avoiding detonation.
There are mainly three variations of water injection systems. They are dependent of the location of the water injectors. The first technique consists of injecting water at the entrance of the intake manifold. The second injects water at the exit pipe of the intercooler. The third technique injects water at the entry of the intercooler and is only used in competition vehicles. In this latter variation most of the in-cylinder detonation prevention is done by injecting additional fuel which is then used as coolant (i.e. is not burned) and runs the engine above the stoechiometric ratio (i.e. rich).
How water injection works
The system is, usually, made up of 3 elements:
A water injector (similar to a fuel injector)
A high pressure pump (capable of attaining at least 3 to 4 bar pressure and sometimes even more)
A pressure sensor connected to the inlet manifold
An inlet air temperature sensor
Usually a water injection system is engaged when the inlet air temperature is exceeding a certain value, typically 40 degrees Celsius, and the engine is on boost. The most advanced systems add to the above electronic circuitry that provides 3D cartography similar to what is used in fuel injection systems. Cartography based devices take into account many more parameters such air/fuel ratio, throttle position and so on
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08-09-2005, 11:53 AM
#8
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Yes, this isn't new. It isn't snake oil either. I have an old 60's car craft magazine that has a big article about water injection. They were going for increased fuel mileage if I remember correctly. There is a SC'd shark in Vegas that is running water injection to eliminate detonation. It Tony's car I believe. Sounds pretty cool to me. Maybe he can shed some light on the subject.
Last edited by Fabio421; 08-09-2005 at 02:49 PM.
08-09-2005, 11:56 AM
#9
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At a recent DE - most of the turbo Asian cars were running water injection.
08-09-2005, 12:17 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
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I fully recognize (and partially understand) water injection as a means by which regulation of cylinder temps can be achieved. The basic system and the alcohol system that aquatune sells seems legit. Thier plus system sounds a bit like voodoo magic to me, but then again I've been wrong before.
As I understand it, water injection increases charge air density and lowers air temperatures through latent heat transfer. These guys seem to be claiming that the water breaks down into component molecules prior to mixing, then "fattening" the air fuel mixture. Maybe they were simplifying it for guys like me.
I still like the magenta distributor blocks.
As I understand it, water injection increases charge air density and lowers air temperatures through latent heat transfer. These guys seem to be claiming that the water breaks down into component molecules prior to mixing, then "fattening" the air fuel mixture. Maybe they were simplifying it for guys like me.
I still like the magenta distributor blocks.
08-09-2005, 01:34 PM
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It works very, very well on Turbo/SC cars that do not have enough charge air cooling. It's also great at reducing detonation. With water injection I was able to run 15psi of boost on an old Saab 900 Turbo on 85 octane gas. I set up a Saab APC box for 15 psi, and it would reduce boost if it detected detonation. It was easy to get full boost with the water running, and without it I could only get 7-8psi once the head was up to normal operating temp. On an NA engine you could probably reduce fuel costs by running water injection and buying cheaper gas. It'd be great on a chipped 85-86 32v that has no knock sensors too.
-Joel.
-Joel.
08-09-2005, 04:10 PM
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Im currently running water methonal injection on my SC'd car. The dyno showed negligable results, but i will say that when i see inlet temps at the inlet face of my SC at 125'F and watch them drop to 60'F in a matter of seconds, there is something to be said.
I dont think its phsycological, but i can feel a bit of a punch when it activates. I see the green light come on, i watch the temps drop and away she goes. I have mine tuned to activate at a certain MAF voltage.
I ve got a video of it some where?
I dont think its phsycological, but i can feel a bit of a punch when it activates. I see the green light come on, i watch the temps drop and away she goes. I have mine tuned to activate at a certain MAF voltage.
I ve got a video of it some where?
Last edited by Tony; 08-09-2005 at 05:34 PM.
08-09-2005, 05:34 PM
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http://members.rennlist.com/v1uhoh/injectionvideo3.mpg
"right click save as" works
try that one..i got it to upload here. The quality may have suffered though.
Its a run from 60 ish to 100 ish showing the temp at teh inlet of the superchager as measured by a very accurate K-type thermocouple device.
The laptop screen is from a data logger(LM-1).
Left to right on the top is...
AFR...RPM..and voltage to indicate when the injection system activates
bottom row
Duty cycle....boost and MAF voltage.
"right click save as" works
try that one..i got it to upload here. The quality may have suffered though.
Its a run from 60 ish to 100 ish showing the temp at teh inlet of the superchager as measured by a very accurate K-type thermocouple device.
The laptop screen is from a data logger(LM-1).
Left to right on the top is...
AFR...RPM..and voltage to indicate when the injection system activates
bottom row
Duty cycle....boost and MAF voltage.
