Aero mirror conversion to early model
03-15-2009, 09:55 PM
#31
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So is possible to directly wire a 1982 928 to the Aero mirrors? All I have to do is follow Alan's schematic below?
Last edited by toofast928; 12-09-2012 at 10:55 PM.
03-16-2009, 08:35 AM
#33
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Well the conversion kit I used is still going strong, I must admit that I don't understand the wiring, didn't bother to try and work it out either, too much strain on the brain these days. PR Technology made the conversion kit for me, they probably will still make you one. The dollar still converts at about the same rate. With the kit, it was very easy. The colors in the kit match up with your own cars wiring and the new aero mirrors.
Greg
Greg
03-16-2009, 03:23 PM
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Alan
03-16-2009, 10:45 PM
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I got to say I don't know of anybody carrying them, but ready to stand corrected. The harness has some electronics in it. The reason it is required if I can repeat what the fellow said who made it, our old mirrors have one motor, the newer ones have two. The early ones have different switching.
This come from the electronic engineer that I contacted and had him make me these up. He said it is a very common problem and that he used to make heaps of these. There is no other easy way around the problem. DoubleNutz do your mirrors work in up down and sideways planes? My were only working in diagonals.
They cost me about $150 USD but they were made up locally.
This come from the electronic engineer that I contacted and had him make me these up. He said it is a very common problem and that he used to make heaps of these. There is no other easy way around the problem. DoubleNutz do your mirrors work in up down and sideways planes? My were only working in diagonals.
They cost me about $150 USD but they were made up locally.
I thought of changing my Iris Blue S2 flags like you have but everyone says the the Aero mirrors have a LOT less visibility than Flags...
Can you confirm or deny this please ?
Also as I have never seen an Iris Blue car with Aeros...how much did they charge you for the repaint on the Aeros ?
All the best Brett
03-16-2009, 11:33 PM
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Hi Brett, hope you are good, I too have never seen an Iris Blue with Aeros, I wouldn't mind putting them on the wife's car but then it wouldn't be original and that is our stocker so to speak. The visibility is not as good although you do get used to them, I am sure they are more aero friendly than the flags but I did see an article on an Australian website where they did some wooly tuft testing and they didn't exactly rave about them. I still like them and wouldn't take them off the other car.
As for the repaint Brett, do you have your own paint? I did as it was left over from the respray, that obviously helped. Mine were painted while I hired the booth, so again that doesn't help you. Are yours new or 2nd hand? That will make a difference. Do you have any spray equipment? As you can do a lot of the prep yourself. If you just want a guess, I would say about 120 pounds including paint. I would break this up by half for materials and 2 hours labour. I just don't know how much work your painters have going in the U.K at the moment, sometimes when things are slack they can be cheaper.
Greg
As for the repaint Brett, do you have your own paint? I did as it was left over from the respray, that obviously helped. Mine were painted while I hired the booth, so again that doesn't help you. Are yours new or 2nd hand? That will make a difference. Do you have any spray equipment? As you can do a lot of the prep yourself. If you just want a guess, I would say about 120 pounds including paint. I would break this up by half for materials and 2 hours labour. I just don't know how much work your painters have going in the U.K at the moment, sometimes when things are slack they can be cheaper.
Greg
03-17-2009, 01:52 AM
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Aeros do have a little less area than flags but are quite accepable for any normal uses - I find them perfect. The outer section being smaller works well - but I do also have a euro style blind spot mirror on the lower inboard section (I have this on all my cars).
The mirrors on my truck are much larger but I don't miss them in the 928... and the areos look so good on the car...
Alan
The mirrors on my truck are much larger but I don't miss them in the 928... and the areos look so good on the car...
Alan
03-17-2009, 04:45 PM
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Hi Brett, hope you are good, I too have never seen an Iris Blue with Aeros, I wouldn't mind putting them on the wife's car but then it wouldn't be original and that is our stocker so to speak. The visibility is not as good although you do get used to them, I am sure they are more aero friendly than the flags but I did see an article on an Australian website where they did some wooly tuft testing and they didn't exactly rave about them. I still like them and wouldn't take them off the other car.
As for the repaint Brett, do you have your own paint? I did as it was left over from the respray, that obviously helped. Mine were painted while I hired the booth, so again that doesn't help you. Are yours new or 2nd hand? That will make a difference. Do you have any spray equipment? As you can do a lot of the prep yourself. If you just want a guess, I would say about 120 pounds including paint. I would break this up by half for materials and 2 hours labour. I just don't know how much work your painters have going in the U.K at the moment, sometimes when things are slack they can be cheaper.
Greg
As for the repaint Brett, do you have your own paint? I did as it was left over from the respray, that obviously helped. Mine were painted while I hired the booth, so again that doesn't help you. Are yours new or 2nd hand? That will make a difference. Do you have any spray equipment? As you can do a lot of the prep yourself. If you just want a guess, I would say about 120 pounds including paint. I would break this up by half for materials and 2 hours labour. I just don't know how much work your painters have going in the U.K at the moment, sometimes when things are slack they can be cheaper.
Greg
Interesting about them NOT being much better aerodynamically , maybe the flags Porsche designed are not as bad as they look lol
I was a little worried about aero visibility but now I have my rear view camera installed with a clip over mirror LCD screen, thats not as important as the camera gives MUCH better visibilty to the rear.
Not got any Aeros yet as over here they tend to sell for around £400 second hand and then the paint on top
Which would put the price over £500 or around $700
Unfortunately I seem to have just about every Snap-On tool ever made apart from a spray booth lol....
All the best Brett
05-16-2018, 10:24 PM
#40
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Resurecting this old gem of an issue because it came up again but is burried in a thread about something else - https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...eferrerid=6055
The Aero mirror discussion starts around post 70.
It is interesting that there are diagrams out there on Al Gore's internet like these: http://www.928intl.com/repair.htm (under Mirror) that are of very variable quality.
The article "GTS Mirror Conversion" is very good at describing in detail the S4 flag to Aero conversion. It presumes memory mirrors/controls - but without is just a subset of the instructions - Good!
The following: "GTS Mirror Wiring '80-'84", "GTS Mirror Wiring '85-'86" and "GTS Mirror Wiring '86R"
Are not useful references at all...! I noted it in the other post - but here it is again - they don't work - or only work in one plane if you call that working.
Some more detailed reasons are in the other post - but mainly they try to use the solenoid connection to power one of the motors - it simply doesn't work that way - the solenoid is either on or off the motor needs to reverse polarities to change direction.
There are a few solutions - one (as noted earlier in this thread) is to swap both switches in the drivers door to the S4/GTS style (probably from a junkyard) and adapt the existing wiring.
Another is to add a relay to the existing switches - to do a similar function to the solenoid and reuse the existing wiring.
A third way is to use a wiring adapter with a small low power relay built in for each side and install it in the door between the stock harness & the mirror. usually these also do the wire color mapping to make life easiest - but for the <$20 of parts used they cost about $150 - if you can find them...
Both the relay solutions have the relay(s) doing the exact same thing and controlled in the same way - one just uses 2 of them for convenience of mounting/install location.
There are those who have said it worked easily for them with no adapter... I'll say thats amazing - they must just have very low expectations...
Its not really that hard to wire these up and the basic configuration is the same for any '77-'86 car with dual remote mirrors (only some single electric mirror 77-79 car may be excluded - and these can use this method for their one mirror - w/ manual passenger mirror).
Any S4 can adapt to Aero mirrors easily (AO this includes you!)
for those models it is just a wire mapping issue and Andy Evangelidis covered it fully in the link above!
The following diagrams show the wiring of the solenoid mirrors and what needs to be done to adapt them to Aero mirrors. I don't know the exact pin mapping to the aeros because the wiring diagrams don't identify which motor is for which mirror plane and which polarity is Up/Right. However there are only 4 possible configurations of these pins - whoever does this first or who has notes on it can fill in the blanks...
Alan
The Aero mirror discussion starts around post 70.
It is interesting that there are diagrams out there on Al Gore's internet like these: http://www.928intl.com/repair.htm (under Mirror) that are of very variable quality.
The article "GTS Mirror Conversion" is very good at describing in detail the S4 flag to Aero conversion. It presumes memory mirrors/controls - but without is just a subset of the instructions - Good!
The following: "GTS Mirror Wiring '80-'84", "GTS Mirror Wiring '85-'86" and "GTS Mirror Wiring '86R"
Are not useful references at all...! I noted it in the other post - but here it is again - they don't work - or only work in one plane if you call that working.
Some more detailed reasons are in the other post - but mainly they try to use the solenoid connection to power one of the motors - it simply doesn't work that way - the solenoid is either on or off the motor needs to reverse polarities to change direction.
There are a few solutions - one (as noted earlier in this thread) is to swap both switches in the drivers door to the S4/GTS style (probably from a junkyard) and adapt the existing wiring.
Another is to add a relay to the existing switches - to do a similar function to the solenoid and reuse the existing wiring.
A third way is to use a wiring adapter with a small low power relay built in for each side and install it in the door between the stock harness & the mirror. usually these also do the wire color mapping to make life easiest - but for the <$20 of parts used they cost about $150 - if you can find them...
Both the relay solutions have the relay(s) doing the exact same thing and controlled in the same way - one just uses 2 of them for convenience of mounting/install location.
There are those who have said it worked easily for them with no adapter... I'll say thats amazing - they must just have very low expectations...
Its not really that hard to wire these up and the basic configuration is the same for any '77-'86 car with dual remote mirrors (only some single electric mirror 77-79 car may be excluded - and these can use this method for their one mirror - w/ manual passenger mirror).
Any S4 can adapt to Aero mirrors easily (AO this includes you!)
for those models it is just a wire mapping issue and Andy Evangelidis covered it fully in the link above!
The following diagrams show the wiring of the solenoid mirrors and what needs to be done to adapt them to Aero mirrors. I don't know the exact pin mapping to the aeros because the wiring diagrams don't identify which motor is for which mirror plane and which polarity is Up/Right. However there are only 4 possible configurations of these pins - whoever does this first or who has notes on it can fill in the blanks...
Alan
I installed (2) motor aero mirrors, I believe off 993 onto my 1983 928 with stock single motor flag mirrors. I have the stock single joy stick with toggle switch for drivers side and passenger in door panel.
The following is my wiring.....sorry in advance for not using proper terminology, I am a novice with electrical and usually screw up.
Relay spliced into joy stick wiring
relay white 85 wire to brown wire to switch (spliced in)
relay orange 86 wire to cut white wire on switch side
relay red 87 wire to cut black wire on harness side
relay black 87a to cut white wire on harness side
relay yellow wire 30 to cut black wire on switch side
Drivers Harness. To Drivers mirror
white...............Blue
black...............Red
yellow.............White
yellow (jumper)......Black
green..............Brown
brown.............Brown
Passenger harness. To. Passenger mirror
blue................White
blue (jumper)..........Black
white..............Blue
black..............Red
green.............Brown
brown. Brown
The yellow (driver) & blue (Passenger) are the switch wires. I combined the white and black in each mirror and tied into either the yellow or the blue wire per Alan’s outline. The red mirror wire works side to side motor in mirror. Blue wire activates up and down.
everything works great, just like factory installed......thank you Alan for your expertise.
Drivers harness
Drivers mirror
Joystick / switch
Passenger stock harness
Passenger mirror
Passenger harness with new new connectors and jumper wire
Mirror connector plug
Mirror connector plug
Relay connection to switch wires and ground
Relay connector #2 to switch wires
05-16-2018, 10:35 PM
#41
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1. Which switched circuit did you find close to the window switch? Or did you run a new one from the panel for the relay?
2. You retained the heater, correct? Maybe it would be worth pointing out which wires are for the heater for those of us omitting this
Nice work!!
2. You retained the heater, correct? Maybe it would be worth pointing out which wires are for the heater for those of us omitting this
Nice work!!
05-16-2018, 10:42 PM
#42
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1. Which switched circuit did you find close to the window switch? Or did you run a new one from the panel for the relay?
2. You retained the heater, correct? Maybe it would be worth pointing out which wires are for the heater for those of us omitting this
Nice work!!
2. You retained the heater, correct? Maybe it would be worth pointing out which wires are for the heater for those of us omitting this
Nice work!!
i did not run any new wires from panel. I merely cut the wires at the switch per Alan’s write up and inserted the (5) relay wires to switch wires.
The Green wire on the harness is the heater, it does not matter which brown wire you hook up to on the mirror. If you don’t want to run heater, I believe you would delete both the brown and green wire from harness, but I would prefer Alan say what to do.
05-16-2018, 10:44 PM
#43
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I used this from another thread Alan posted in.
Yes everthing you said makes sense. The drivers door mirror switches you have are incapable of controlling both motors. You have 2 options - change all the wiring for the S4 config = probably raid the junkyard for the whole door loom setup and adapt to the wiring you have to the passenger door (should be OK to reuse this).
Or keep the switches you have and add an SPDT relay in the drivers door next to the direction adjustment switch and change around a few wires. The relay will go in place of the solenoids and will switch between the U/D & L/R planes. You could put one in each door basically at the mirror end or a single one at the switch and a little more wire swapping, (I would do the latter).
From the wiring diagram its impossible for me tell which of the up/down left/right is which polarity at the motor - however that only effects the final connections in the mirror so is easily swapped after the other changes are complete.
For the heater element the loom Brown & Grey/Green are used connected to the 2 brown wires on the Aero's - order doesn't matter.
On the drivers mirror the yellow wire is mirror motor connection L#1
On the passenger mirror the black wire is mirror connection R#1
On the mirror direction adjustment switch the pin 6 connection (white wires)*1 should now go only to the 86 connection of the new relay - the 85 connection of the relay should be spliced to ground (brown wire on pin 2 of the adj swicth). The 30 connection of the relay should be the only connection to pin 5 of the Adj. switch (black wires)*2.
The 87a connection of the relay should go to the remaining 2 white wires (from *1) and the 87 connection should go to the remaining 2 black wires (from *2).
The white wires at both left/right mirrors are motor connection #2
The black wires at both left/right mirrors are motor connection #3
The 4 motor wires from each Aero mirror should be as follows:
Black & Red from one motor and Blue & White from the other
The configuration you need will have 2 mirror wires joined together from the 2 motors each side to create 3 connections (each side is the same) finish one first - then the other side wil be easy.
So the motor link options are:
Black & Blue linked - Red & White individual
Red & White linked - Black & Blue individual
Black & White linked - Red & Blue individual
Red & Blue linked - Black & White individual
It is not clear which one you need - but it will be one of these to get the relative movements correct. If you figure out which motor is which plane it will be easy to see what needs to be swapped based on what position movements are wrong.
These motor connections can then be paired up with motor connections #1, #2 & #3. #1 is what creates the L/R switch so it must always be the dual pair connection in every case - or both mirrors will move at the same time for some direction movements.
I think this should work OK. It is generic for any early flag to late flag/Aero update install. Use a standard SPDT relay and socket with pigtails.
When you figure out what needed to be connected to what for final correct operation please post it back here.
Alan
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1994 928 GTS Black(741)/Black Manual "AZ Desert Sharks"
Yes everthing you said makes sense. The drivers door mirror switches you have are incapable of controlling both motors. You have 2 options - change all the wiring for the S4 config = probably raid the junkyard for the whole door loom setup and adapt to the wiring you have to the passenger door (should be OK to reuse this).
Or keep the switches you have and add an SPDT relay in the drivers door next to the direction adjustment switch and change around a few wires. The relay will go in place of the solenoids and will switch between the U/D & L/R planes. You could put one in each door basically at the mirror end or a single one at the switch and a little more wire swapping, (I would do the latter).
From the wiring diagram its impossible for me tell which of the up/down left/right is which polarity at the motor - however that only effects the final connections in the mirror so is easily swapped after the other changes are complete.
For the heater element the loom Brown & Grey/Green are used connected to the 2 brown wires on the Aero's - order doesn't matter.
On the drivers mirror the yellow wire is mirror motor connection L#1
On the passenger mirror the black wire is mirror connection R#1
On the mirror direction adjustment switch the pin 6 connection (white wires)*1 should now go only to the 86 connection of the new relay - the 85 connection of the relay should be spliced to ground (brown wire on pin 2 of the adj swicth). The 30 connection of the relay should be the only connection to pin 5 of the Adj. switch (black wires)*2.
The 87a connection of the relay should go to the remaining 2 white wires (from *1) and the 87 connection should go to the remaining 2 black wires (from *2).
The white wires at both left/right mirrors are motor connection #2
The black wires at both left/right mirrors are motor connection #3
The 4 motor wires from each Aero mirror should be as follows:
Black & Red from one motor and Blue & White from the other
The configuration you need will have 2 mirror wires joined together from the 2 motors each side to create 3 connections (each side is the same) finish one first - then the other side wil be easy.
So the motor link options are:
Black & Blue linked - Red & White individual
Red & White linked - Black & Blue individual
Black & White linked - Red & Blue individual
Red & Blue linked - Black & White individual
It is not clear which one you need - but it will be one of these to get the relative movements correct. If you figure out which motor is which plane it will be easy to see what needs to be swapped based on what position movements are wrong.
These motor connections can then be paired up with motor connections #1, #2 & #3. #1 is what creates the L/R switch so it must always be the dual pair connection in every case - or both mirrors will move at the same time for some direction movements.
I think this should work OK. It is generic for any early flag to late flag/Aero update install. Use a standard SPDT relay and socket with pigtails.
When you figure out what needed to be connected to what for final correct operation please post it back here.
Alan
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1994 928 GTS Black(741)/Black Manual "AZ Desert Sharks"
05-16-2018, 10:50 PM
#44
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Never mind on that last question, looked over the photos & your description again.
