rixter

"The last part of the equation was to make the new car not too far out of reach to buy."

unfortunately they blew this part of the equation

Reece

Paul:
I touched on similar points in my rambling response to the age old question, "What year is the best 928?" and as far as what constitutes a "real" Porsche, it must be left to Porsche itself to define. Any car they choose to put their name on has not been the product of some quick or ill considered marketing plan. I trust in them to respect and understand the Porsche legacy to the degree that they continue to make outstanding automobiles yet are allowed the freedom to expand on the original concept. With the measure of success they have gained over the years, they can do many things that were impossible in the beginning. The rear engine, air cooled car is the classic form and can't be denied. To deny Porsche the freedom to be creative and try new ideas in a time that there are seemingly few limits would be torture to the spirit at the core of Porsche.
Frankly, I was never much of a Porsche fan mostly because of the attitude of the drivers. When I bought my '67 basket case and rebuilt it from top to bottom, I could clearly see the genius and intentions of the designers in every detail and in the end I felt I what I had gotten to know was very different from the image the American enthusiast had given the car. The Porsche as Status Symbol seemed to conflict with the straightforward design philosophy manifested in the nuts and bolts. That same attitude is surely locked into the narrow view of what makes a "Porsche." As the marketing department played a more conspicuous role in keeping Porsche solvent over the years, the 928 is the classic example of an imbalance between marketing and design departments. My theory is that had the marketing department been restrained and the car presented purely on its own merits, it would have been a success. Forget targeting the top of the line, the luxury appointments and all the electronic gizmos that contribute nothing to the car but its notorious problems. The design on every level is a masterpiece, and without the frills and overpricing, it would have been able to settle into its own spot in the marketplace and evolve, refine and improve the way a real Porsche gets to do. Just imagine a stripped down 928 and you would have the version of the American Muscle Car they were aiming at but done as only Porsche could do. Makes me want to take one and build it the way it should have been done. They are such a bargain now it would be easy to get an early car and simplify it, lighten it, make it reliable (install manual window cranks!) and nothing could be more pure Porsche than that.
No matter what, I sure am glad the made the 928 to begin with. One of the great cars of all time regardless of any description.

FlyingDog

It was originally going to be a Chevy tranny, but GM engineers wouldn't get off their lazy asses to modify the housing.

FlyingDog

Sounds like a SAAB discussion.

Daniel Dudley

Love your site. Keep promising myself that I will treat the Queen to some bling when she is fully sorted. I do think the 928 was ahead of the curve for Porsche, which is why the new ones are so much like the old 928 except for engine location. I think the 928 with about 500 pounds removed and a rear cargo area about a foot deeper would be the perfect Porsche for me. The 928 was unlike anything less exotic than a Ferrari Daytona with it's front engine\ rear transaxle, and not unlike the 550 Marenello amoung the moderns. A true supercar designed along the lines of a tiger tank in terms of safety and robust strength, hence the extra weight. The same thing happened to Jaguar with the E type. A super car, but a little heavy for competition use. These days even so called small cars come in at 3000 # , but it got the 928 a lot of flack. And it took Porsche a few years to come out with a US spec car with the horsepower that the 928 was designed to have from the first. The 928 should have come out the door blowing every other sportscar out of the water, particularly the 911 in terms of performance and handling. Anyone who says the 928 is a luxury tourer is right. But it also handles and they have tons of personality. I really had to think hard about whether I wanted an 89 928 or an 89 911 and of course I picked the 928. But I see why people have the big garages. I'd probably still be a 100% Fiat guy, but there came a time when I wanted a change and a chance to fulfill old dreams. To me the 928 was a car that opened a lot of doors, and in the last few years I have driven a lot of different cars of all makes, owned a few, and had a lot of fun. Ask me about the Skip Barber school, or Rennsport, or Jags, or Hot Rods... I hope to keep having fun. But every time I think about selling my OB, well it ain't happening. So here's to the old dreams , and may we all continue to have dreams. We are such lucky stiffs.

fabric

Ironically, my other car is a Saab hatchback.

Daniel Dudley

My wife's car is a Saab hatchback as well. I never told her it had the high output engine. How fortuitous.

FlyingDog

I've had 2. When they introduced the 9-5 wagon they claimed that SAAB was a hatchback company that had never made a stationwagon. I guess they forgot about the 95. Now they don't make any hatchbacks. They should go back to designing and building their own cars instead of selling rebadged GM crap.

chaadster

Yeah, Saab is looking pretty much screwed these days... from the b.s. Subaru rebadge to that new SUV; GM has started down the road of ruining the Saab marque. If you're a Saab fan, I recommend picking up a 9000 Aero ASAP!

HK G36C

purest Porsche is not water-cooled right....

James-man

Maybe not ironically, my other car is a station wagon.

Reece

I used to be a Perfectionist, or fancied myself to be one. But then I realized that the more Ilearned, the more I was aware of and I could never catch up to the ideal of "Perfection" unless I was willing to stop growing. There is no such thing as perfection and it serves the purpose of giving us a goal to strive for in whatever we endevour to do. The idea of "Pure" is much the same and the danger in these labels is how they demand that either the person seeking these levels of Nirvana stops in their tracks or a company like Porsche throw in the towel and accept that it has all been done and their is no point in imagining anything else. Their first car was more unusual than most others because of the powerplant and placement in the vehicle. Is it the fact it is air cooled or rear engined or both that defines the Pure Porsche. The best (and that is always a matter of opinion) Porsche has yet to be built.

And as far as the 928 being underpowered at the time it was introduced, I remember wondering at the time if the internal combustion engine would ever survive environmental realities and be capable of great performance again. The seventies were a depressing wasteland with very few exceptions. Pop the hood on any other car of that time and see the engine compartment choked with all the add on junk that car companies used to meet increasinly stringent emission standards.(The exception was the BMW 2002Tii which had only a crankcase breather tube for emission control thanks to the introduction of mechanical fuel injection) You will be reminded of how stunning the 928 was by comparison and just that more daring a design to introduce at the absolutely the most dismal time to buy a new car in history. All Ferrari could muster was the 308. Nice lines but a sled. The BB512 Boxer is probably the only exotic to stick it's head above the crowd at that time aside from the 928. To me, the fact they designed the 928, then built it at the riskiest time for such an investment is Pure Porsche.

How did we get off on station wagons and Saabs????

Nicole

I have said a few times that I feel the 911 is the best Porsche - but the 928 is the best CAR that Porsche ever made [for its time].

What does that mean?

Well, when people hear the name "Porsche" (or "Powrch"), they expect a rear engine air cooled vehicle that is rather light and quick.. While this era ended with the 993, and the 996 was pretty much an all new design, the rear engined Carreras still carry that value that fills the image of the marque. It's what people expect, and therefore best in their eyes and for the company.

As Paul points out: The 928 did not follow any of this marketing stuff - the engineers just designed and put into producton the best car they could imagine at the time and for the future. It was better in all respects than other Porsches of the time - except maybe the performance of the turbo (which I believe was more expensive).

But with a 928 you could drive from Frankfurt to Munich in 3.5 hours (instead of 4.5 with a regular car) and still not need a shower upon arrival. Business people and architects loved the 928 for express transportation and as a status symbol until about the late 80ies when it had become too sporty and uncomfortable and Mercedes and BMW offered more practical solutions for such use.

As a result, Porsche had to develop the car from a grand tourer into a sports car and mobilize the true sports car enthusiasts, particularly in the US. They Americanized the car, added the more "showy" spoilers and longer bumpers, and did pretty well until about 1989 - I think that's when the US-Doilar was really high, the prices skyrockedted. Until then, production had been near 50% for the US, and started dropping dramatically.

I have often questioned the sense of the S4 modifications for Europe, where parking the thing was already a problem because of it's width and wide doors. Now it was longer, harder to guess the ends, and the spoiler might have been a bit too much of a show for many established Europeans.

In the early 90ies, however, I think that many of the features on the car had become just too outdated for that price range, and Porsche did not invest in anything beyond power and a bit of handling. No 6-speed manual or 5-speed auto, the ol' complex AC without separate temperature left and right, a chaotic console, no wood, little standard leather,... Luxury car buyers, however, are very much into look and feel (the "Lexus" effect), of which the 928 offered very little (and Jager Engineering nowadays helps out in that area). So, those who wanted a real sporty car went 911, the rest went Mercedes or BMW or Jaguar.

The 928 was always a great car, but towards the end it required some compromises not many buyers were wanting to make for a car in that price range. A salesman once told me that potential 928 buyers felt the 928 was not much fun around town because of its stiffness, lack of ground clearance, and the difficulty to see where it starts and ends. Apparently, many wifes did not want their husbands to buy a such car.

Again, that's the buyers' perspective, not the engineering side - but I agree that I don't like to drive the 928 to run errands, and I once test drove an S4, which the owner sold because his wife did not like it.

As an enthusiast I personally can acknowledge the 928s shortcomings and still love it for its unique beauty, its performance, and its handling that makes it like an extension of myself when driving. It is the most uncompromising design Porsche ever did, but after 17 years others had attractive alternatives for less money. It was the best CAR that Porsche ever built [for its time], but it was not the best Porsche in the eyes of the buyers.

Sadly.

fabric

Sounds like I'm on SaabCentral or TSN.

I'll just point out that the 9-5 was the only European car to make it on Consumer Reports top 10 cars list. It's one of the few of their recommended used cars that's European as well. CR is obviously not the end all be all of cars, but for getting an idea of how reliable a car is, they're pretty good.

As for rebadged GM crap, Saab has never made their own cars entirely. That 9000 you speak of was co-designed with Fiat and Alfa, and based on a Fiat chassis. The engine in the "classic" 900 is a Triumph block. Ford engines were used before that.

Sure the 9-2 and 9-7 are classic GM badge engineering. But if it keeps them from pulling the plug on Saab, I think we'll see a bit better stuff in the near future. The reality is everything is platform shared, the 9-3 is an example of it done well.

I actually think Ford is really doing a good job with their platform sharing if you look at what's going on between Ford, Volvo, Jag, Aston Martin and Land Rover.

heinrich

STOP STOP STOP you are reaffirming everything I have ever thought about Saab. I don't want to be unkind to those here who love Saab, so please man, stooooooooooooop.