mark kibort

so andrews picture with the washer is for the 87s and Big Daves picture is for the 85. this concures with Heinrich verification that the 85 has no washer.

so, what do I have? I still think mine looks more like the first picture from andrew '87 as far as the tensioner actuation spring and plunger, but i use the 85 pump. so, what do you think?
what is part 11 on the '87 pic. does that mount to the waterpump, while the 85 has this as part of the casting of the water pump??

thanks
MK

Garth S

Mark,
If you are sure that you have/had washer #45, then that is the securing 'flange' for the outer carrier arm bushing - which sits on the pivot STUD of the '87+ style pump. This washer was replaced by a cross brace to the pump in '88 on (~6" piece of bar stock) - to further stabilize the stud against tension loads.
Without this washer, the screw that fits into the end of the stud is likely too small to locate the bushing/arm laterally.
Any flat washer should do, or get the cross brace.
Earlier, you said 17mm bolt and pre '87 pump: if that were the case, there is no #45 present.

Scott M.

Mark;

FWIW, I just did a TB on a 2 85 cars, doing one on an 86.5 and have two more 85-86 motors sitting here and none have the extra washer (under the bolt head) you mention.

Good luck,
Scott

mark kibort

thanks, so the question becomes does the washer follow the pump syle or something else. I do know for sure, we are using a pre 87 water pump. maybe the slack in the arm is to spec. like i said, it is quite slight. i think a washwer may be too much, and make some friction so the arm doesnt move freely. it would have to be pretty thin to do what im thinking id want it to do. the creeping of the belt must be do to something else. as i mentioned a while ago, i did break this bolt (17mm head but small shaft) FORTUNATELY, so i got a new one and installed it. thinking it was weak or bent causing the creeping of the belt. the old belt was showing signs of edge wear, very slightly. its perfectly flush with the cam pulley now and tension is in spec.

so, i guess the main question is since i have a hybrid of sorts, is what the washer follows as far as the assembly goes.

MK

mark kibort

so, now a puzzle
I just looked at scots euro 82 block that we are working on and it has the removable shaft that bolts to the waterpump on the water pump, with the little bolt that holds the tensioner idle roller (like the PET shows for the S4 on this thread)
could this block been converted to an S4 set up?? it has the little bolt that holds the tensioner idler roller in place, not the 17mm head on a 12mm type bolt with no washer like the 85 and earlier should have.

any ideas?

mk

Big Dave

Maybe it's a question for someone at the Big 3, but I'm now wondering whether the 17mm pivot bolt on the earlier cars can be swapped out for the smalle 12mm bolt and part #11 in Andrew's picture. If the thread pattern on bolt #11 is the same as the 17mm pivot bolt, why not?

Garth S

There are two generations of water pumps: the first uses the 17mm head pivot bolt with 8mm threads. This 12mm shaft bolt threads into a machined 'boss' on the housing for the idler roller, and was fitted to all cars through '86.5.
The second generation deleted the 'boss' and uses a 10mm threaded stud of 12mm diameter to support the idler roller and carrier arm - from '88 on, a cross brace was added between the stud and the pump body..
These pumps are interchangeable with all blocks, regardless of MY ( a S4 pump will fit an early 16v car, and I'm sure that an early pump would fit a GT - not that anyone wants to do that); however, one must carefully match a pump with the correct roller, bolt/stud, and carrier arm.
The carrier arm also has different generations to match the centerline offset of the tensioner body, bushing type, and low tension alarm gear.
One cannot swap the pivot bolt for a pivot stud ....

mark kibort

I just took another look. the part on the S4 set up that bolts to the waterpump, is the surfaces that the idler arm bearing rides on. on the earlier cars, there is no place for this long shaft, as the pump has the raised area that the early 17mm bolt with this same diameter bearing surface has. my question, is if this was an upgrade to the S4 set up, what else has to change. i wonder what the advantages are of the S4 set up? no more 17m bolt to over torque? I just looked and i think its only 10mm as a little bolt that screws in the removable shaft that bolts to the waterpump to attach the tensioner arm.

mk

mark kibort

thanks, that was the answer i was looking for .(now verification!)

MK