Nicole

If there was no mandate, we sould not have airbags - nobody would pay extra for them voluntarily, because nobody anticipages having an accident. And we would not have second generation airbags, either, because the first generation would never have gotten off the ground, preventing companies from investing into the technology alltogehter.

Sometimes the government has to mandate things for our own good. I am grateful for other mandates, such as the catalytic converter. Otherwise we'd still be driving cars with carburators and the old ignition systems, which are less efficient, less reliable, and need a lot more maintenance. In this case, a government mandate helped make our cars better in many ways aside from making them more environmentally friendly.

The mandate for airbags essentially has done the same - even though the first generation was less than perfect (as were the first generation cat equipped cars).

pikey7

Sorry, yes they do if you want to sell a car in the US at all. I agree with the reasoning you give, but it doesn't help the face that if it was made law over the whole of the US, then the airbag design and function could be made much more efficient. The problem comes as the requirements for motor vehicles are given out at a federal level, where the laws are made at a local one. This means the federal agency has no choice but to "tar you all" with the same brush.

The force differentials between hitting an airbag unbelted and belted are HUGE (IIRC, like 15 times the force, and that's the same size person! No accounting for 5% females and 99%males!). There is no way the bag can be manufactured to take up that differential in one package. (Sorry, yes there is, we all drive around with 600mm steering wheels. Which then unfortunately then compromises the laws on vision, and then you can't sell the car again. It's a vicious circle.)

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for airbags too, the problem is a few people who refuse to compromise ruins it for the masses.

Oh, BTW, I used to work for the biggest design and manufacturers of airbags in the world......

worf928

Obviously passive supplemental restraints are required by law. However, if by 'yes' you mean all airbags in cars sold in the US must have airbags that deploy with the same force necessary to protect an unbelted 175-pound male and that necessary to kill a small person then I respectfully disagree.

The first generation US airbags WERE designed that way - single deployment force. They didn't HAVE to be designed with deployment force sufficient to kill. Note that Europe didn't have the child-killing airbags. And they are not (all) designed that way in the current generation of cars. At the time there were technology and cost limitations that prevented (from a practical standpoint) airbags that deployed with varying force. Fine. That's not relevant to my primary bitch.

The fact that the US required killer airbags is my issue. Not that the government required airbags. Not that the government dictated standards. The specific standards chosen are the root of my rant. Our government mandated standards that protected those who didn't wear seat belts at the expense of small people and children. While Europe, on the other hand, set standards the were based upon belted cabin occupants. One government chose to protect its citizens from themselves, while the other government(s) chose to protect citizens who demonstrated some responsibility.

Not with 100% precision. However, the newest generation of airbags that deploy with variable force based upon data from multiple accelerometers and (in some cases) sensors in seats that provide rough passenger weight data go a long way toward enabling the unbelted to survive while not killing the small.

Who are those that refuse to compromise and on what do they refuse to compromise?

I'm fine with airbags. Manufacturers finally got them right due to technology advancement allowing the design of systems that can meet the ridiculous US requirements of protecting unbelted passengers while at the same time not killing small people.

Good for you. Quite possibly, those airbag systems were deployed based upon data provided by low-cost accelerometers invented by some folks that worked a few offices down the hall from me.

mspiegle

that's what I was thinking

Nicole

What the car looksk like after an accident is not as important as how the passengers look...

Here is an example: Many SUVs look very good after accidents, as they have steel frames and dont' crumble much. But as a result, the pasengers might have been subjected to very high levels of deceleration. I have heard and written (here) about a case of a woman who had an accident with an Escalade. The vehicle did not show much damage, but for some reason she hit the dashboard with both knees and broke them. She will never walk normally again...

pikey7

Unfortunately even with the state of todays technology, never mind that of 15 years ago, it is not possible to cover all shapes and sizes of people with two very different regulations. That is my point.

Car manufacturers are in a Lose-lose situation. The safety system must be designed to take into account the large proportions of a 200lb coffee drinking, burger eating fat cat, and a 6 year old who like to play jumping jacks on the passenger seat. If you can tell me how to do it, then please do, and I'll get the system sorted. Experts better than me have been trying to do it for 20 years, and look how far they've got.

If the "compromise" was made to take away the rights (stupid rights anyway IMHO) of people to drive without seatbelts, then the cover made by a passive restraint system could be made so that 95% of people could be efectively unaffected (I mean in an injury-caused-by-the-bag way) by the airbag in deployment, and it would be possible to have a single unit in a vehicle, with appropriate sensors to ascertain mass and size which would properly fulfil the function the airbag is supposed to provide. Bags could even be retro-fitted to this new standard for a relatively low cost.

Oh, make seatbelts mandatory in all cars, and you would save Ca.10% on new car costs too......

Thaddeus

I like airbags... on new cars. I don't trust the damn things on a car that's more than 10 years old, and they're too expensive to replace.

I'd like to see them made optional on cars with factory-stock 5 point seatbelts. You wear a 5 pointer, you don't need to spend the 1000 bucks on a bag. I'd do that. Done. Stereo controls are all on the steering wheel anyway.

fabric

Hasn't seat belt use increased significantly since the introduction of airbags?

I'd also advocate more serious punishment for repeat DUI offenders. Alcohol is involved in a large number of auto fatalities. Confiscate their car, not their license.

Shane

Jim_H rolls his '90 GT no air bag release.

FlyingDog

When one of your friends ends up as a paraplegic or goes into anaphylactic shock causing brain damage from an airbag in a situation that wouldn't cause any damage or injury, you may choose to reconsider your support of airbags.

Nicole

No frontal impact, no airbag release. Simple.

fraggle

well... they seem big until you do a few canyon runs and find out the 928 actually isn't...

inactiveuser92616

airbags annoy me, personally. I have no personal fear of them aside from arm abrasions, as I sit so far back; but I really do believe that airbags should not be seatbelt replacements if a car is equipped with them at all. An energy absorbing seatbelt is a far better measure of restraint; with many less variables.