holy crap, makes me shudder and quiver just thinking about that setup.....ooooh hotness Just gotta think about cutting a massive hole in that beautiful hood if one's thinking about installing that motor

 

Louis Ott & Devek have developed a similar Indiv. TB Intake system... $3k+ and you can have one too.. No cutting the hood, it fits under a stock 928 hood...

 

Found the link!

http://www.kellymoss.com/pages/RaceDept/944GTR928.htm

Now who wants this motor done on their 928???

I want individual throttlebodies! Is it on their site? I'm gonna look right now!

 

linky no worky

 

 

Has anyone have copy or know where one is posted of the dyno chart fo the kelly moss engine? Either with the DEVEK B1 Cam grind or with the higher lift/duration grind?

 

this is kinda like deja-vu... sorry, different MY fuel rails don't just swap in... I had to get S4/GT rails to put on my S4 manifold, which was necessary because of the GT heads, due to wanting 968 sized valves... it's all connected...

I used to think improving on Dr. P's stuff was easy llike a cheby too, but learned the hard way these beasts are more tuned than I ever imagined... not a lot of off the shelf stuff for these babies - so it's cu$tom/fabrication time if you step out of the box very far...

for you and me, it's also confounded/compounded by the different MY design changes... the 85/86 MY stuff IS different/more limited in some ways...
getting 400rwhp NA is not as trivial as I had hoped w/an 85/86 shark either - with boost it's probably easier, but you'll have to make some adjustments for the 85... think the 85 also has a bit more compression too, so you might be limited on how much you cram into it, w/out doing a bottom end too...

everyone schooled me, but I laughed... now I just nod and obey... if you find an easier way for your beast - many will be jealous and many will be happy... so do please keep us posted...

regards!

 

I like that 3 stage dry sump pump hanging where the smog pump used to be.....! Did someone say oiling problem or crankcase ventilation isue...? Doesn't seem to be an issue here from the looks of it....

 

Rob,

Sounds like you went to the school of hard knocks...

 

Rob, I almost went down that same road with NA HP, but the call of the superchargers won over. I still might build a stroker, or at the very least a purpose built engine for high boost. Till then I will push the envelope on my stock engines to find where the weak points are or aren't. Why because I'm sick in the head, I got the HorsePower Disease. And I read this from the 1986 Product Knowledge Workbook:

Open the seamless hood of the late model 928S, and you’ll encounter a powerplant that seems to fill the engine compartment to the brim, occupying virtually every available corner of the underhood area. At 288 bhp in current U.S. trim, the brawny four-valve V-8 is one of the most powerful engines in a passenger car, and it looks the part.
But the 928 powerplant is not the only water-cooled four-valve engine to bear the ‘Porsche’ logotype on its cam covers. Formula One enthusiasts associate the Porsche name with another engine, one that despite its diminuitive size and modest 1.5 liter displacement offers up to 1000 bhp for race qualifying purposes: the Porsche TAG Turbo. The ‘TAG’ stands for Techniques d’Avant Garde, the French high-tech firm that commissioned its design by Porsche.
Since both are products of the laboratories at Weissach, it almost restates the obvious to note that the 928’s advanced technology benefits from the lessons learned in the development and campaigning of the TAG Turbo.
The similarities between the two powerplants begin with materials: both use a crankcase, pistons, and cylinder heads made of aluminum alloy, for rapid heat dissipation and low weight. As we’ve discussed earlier in this chapter, the 928S powerplant uses silicon-aluminum cylinder bores etched to leave a hard silicon surface film; the TAG Turbo employs the similar approach of plating the bores with a nickel-silicon alloy, for greater resistance to wear under the hellish conditions of Formula One competition. The Tag Turbo’s connecting rods are an exotic titanium alloy, rather than the sintered forged steel of the 928S engine, but this is primarily to reduce reciprocating mass and thereby extend the redline upward. The technique is apparently effective: the Tag Turbo reportedly operates at up to 12,000 r.p.m.!
Another general similarity is in the engine format: both are vee-type engines. The 928S uses eight cylinders set in the classic ninety-degree angle used by Mercedes-Benz and in most American engines, while the TAG Turbo employs a more compact V-6 format with a slightly narrower eighty-degree angle between cylinder banks.
The most striking parallels between the two, however are to be found in their induction systems. Each employs Bosch multiport fuel injection: the 928S uses the LH Jetronic system we’ve discussed, while the Tag Turbo- facing stringent Formula One fuel consumption regulations- uses a fully electronically controlled DME-style Motronic system to govern ignition and injection parameters. In the 928, one injector serves each cylinder, while the TAG Turbo requires two.
Both powerplants employ hemispherical combustion chambers and a central spark plug location, for even flame-front propagation. And each deploys two intake and two exhaust valves around that spark plug. The result: virtually the entire chamber inner surface becomes what engineers call the Curtain Area – the zone available for gases to flow through. This, of course, is the essence of the four-valve principle – by ‘opening up each combustion chamber, admitting and then expelling larger quantities of gases, the engine’s efficiency is increased.
Precisely how far the efficiencies of these two engines can be stretched is a matter for speculation. Formula One regulations for the late Eighties will reduce engine displacement to 1.2 liters, yet observers feel that the incredible power output of the TAG Turbo – achieved through its combination of four-valve induction, smart electronics, twin turbos, and four intercoolers – will be maintained despite the rule changes. Meanwhile, the 944 Turbo has demonstrated the ability of the Weissach staff to engineer turbocharged for water- as well as air-cooled members of the Porsche line-up. How powerful might a turbocharged, four valve 928S engine be? Lets see: at even a fraction of the 650-bhp-per liter output of the TAG Turbo, the five-liter 928S could develop…Figure it out for yourself.


Warren I'll be installing a vortech this spring, I'll be sure to let you know how it goes.

 

Thats a beautiful kelly moss engine. I would love to have the specifications on that just for reference. Could anybody duplicate that engine's output power, and for what price?

Who can pick out some obvious differences of that engine vs. a typical 928?
I only noticed the dry sump, fluted 8 port intake and equal length headers.

 

Here's a question for the Murph SC camp: I looked at your dyno numbers and while the hp level was a slow and gradual rising at RPM rises with impressive high end hp,but the torque jumped to 325 ft.lbs almost immediately and rose from there. How much low end acceleration does that torque give you? What kind of difference is that from the acceleration off the line from an autorotor setup?

 

The S4's put down a little more torque but all the same, torque is immediate and stays all the way though to redline.

 

Shane, reading that I'm sad to say those engines seem different in almost every imagineable way ...

 

Warren,

You have a lot of info here. I think both systems CS and TS superchargers have their advantages depending on user requirements. I was very close to pulling the trigger on a TS myself, and do not want to light off another pissing match here.

I can't compare an autorotor setup to mine, since I don't have G-Tech numbers yet. I turned 5.2 sec 0-60 stock with a very gentle launch due to wheelhop. I now have enough low end torque to instantly melt the tires in the lower gears, so I don't want any more low end torque than I already have. I expect low 4 second range this spring based on prior drag racing experience and how the car pulls compared to stock, but until I do it just a guess. Again, traction dependent. I have not seen any times for a 5 spd autorotor setup yet either, but some excellent ones to shoot for with the automatics ( and I think 2:20 gears).

In my opinion, more low end torque on a 5spd than the CS produces is not necessarily beneficial from both a traction and parts breakage standpoint. There is only so much tire that will fit under the stock body, and only so much traction available with that tire size (295/30/18). I personally don't want to have to go to drag radials for street use and give up on the excellent cornering ability of the car. Currently the rears are 255/40/17" SO-3's.

600 hp is a nice number, just make sure you can get the power down to the ground, otherwise it is no better than 500 once you pull the car off the dyno.

Good luck with the project.

Jim R.