Things that happened to the S4 this morning
12-21-2004, 01:12 PM
#31
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Then, it was the vet engine powered GTO. if it was supercharged, well, you know what that would do to the already stout, 400hp NA engine. again, if he was supercharged, then he was playing with you! the sound you heard could have been transmission whine or intake noise. who knows . kind of new for a supercharging fitting, but you never know.
mk
mk
Originally Posted by heinrich
Definitely saw G T O cast into the rear bumper.
12-21-2004, 01:43 PM
#32
Three Wheelin'
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Ok, this week there are sure to be some meets with friends that are back in town for the holidays. I will specifically take both my cars and go against stock Nissan 350Z's to see what is what. Maybe even a few non stock. Matter of fact, I can scare up a 996 or two as well.
As many roadtrips as I take all over the place at ridiculous speeds I think I can safely speak for what does and does not walk me, and how hard the driver was or was not trying. I never start races, I wait until the other driver will not leave me alone. Usually, I am maintaining a speed of around 90mph going where I'm going and the other driver sees me coming and figures it's a race. I let them lead and within a mile or two they tire or get scared of the pace on the open highway. Then I start to go by them and they get their second wind, then we are "officially" racing and it ends where it ends. I give drivers multiple chances and yes I have gotten my butt handed to me. I even got handled by an privateer 18 wheeler in the mountains of Tennessee on one of my cross country trips. We were in a ppretty bad storm, the truck was going 120mph UPHILL and God knows what downhill. I had to draft him close cause it was night, and the spray blinded me anywhere else, I also needed his rain tracks to even maintain position and keep from hydroplaning off the highway. You want to talk about feathering the throttle and stretched fuel mileage? Ha! Eventually I had to let him go and he did vanish into the night. Anyway, I digress.
A new 2003 996 was light years different than the early models. My friends stage IV Audi S4 absolutely destroyed me coming back from Santa Barbara this past summer. Didn't matter the speed, up high or down low it was all the same. Stage IV/V's have around 480AWHP more if they are on race fuel, kind of like a 9996TT sedan if you will.
Now one can never really truly know what is going on in the other drivers car but if you're hammering along for more than half an hour with the same car still ******* you then it is safe to say the other driver is not suffering from any reluctance. In actuality he won't take no for an answer and in the rare occassions where I have stopped to chat with the other driver, they want to know how a car they used to love in the 80's or their dad's car from the 80's is able to do what it just did. The skill of the other driver is also a big unknown and since it's on public freeways with little or no traffic around there really isn't a great deal of "racing" skill involved. In the case of the 996 in the desert where it was flat and straight, regardless of what gears we jumped down to eventually it ended in our top gears with the pedal to the metal both of us (and his girlfriend) grinning like fools while watching the road and looking at each other. There literally was nothing else to do, except watch for CHP and they eventually did run up on us to look us over.
These stories I hazard to tell from time to time are meant to be entertainment. Whatever happens, and whatever car it happens in, if I tell it online it is meant for your entertainment and amusement. Not as a definitive end all be all of this car can do this or that but I do tell it like is. Also, might I add, I think this is the longest I've seen a thread go without the "don't race on the street" nannies opening their yaps.
As many roadtrips as I take all over the place at ridiculous speeds I think I can safely speak for what does and does not walk me, and how hard the driver was or was not trying. I never start races, I wait until the other driver will not leave me alone. Usually, I am maintaining a speed of around 90mph going where I'm going and the other driver sees me coming and figures it's a race. I let them lead and within a mile or two they tire or get scared of the pace on the open highway. Then I start to go by them and they get their second wind, then we are "officially" racing and it ends where it ends. I give drivers multiple chances and yes I have gotten my butt handed to me. I even got handled by an privateer 18 wheeler in the mountains of Tennessee on one of my cross country trips. We were in a ppretty bad storm, the truck was going 120mph UPHILL and God knows what downhill. I had to draft him close cause it was night, and the spray blinded me anywhere else, I also needed his rain tracks to even maintain position and keep from hydroplaning off the highway. You want to talk about feathering the throttle and stretched fuel mileage? Ha! Eventually I had to let him go and he did vanish into the night. Anyway, I digress.
A new 2003 996 was light years different than the early models. My friends stage IV Audi S4 absolutely destroyed me coming back from Santa Barbara this past summer. Didn't matter the speed, up high or down low it was all the same. Stage IV/V's have around 480AWHP more if they are on race fuel, kind of like a 9996TT sedan if you will.
Now one can never really truly know what is going on in the other drivers car but if you're hammering along for more than half an hour with the same car still ******* you then it is safe to say the other driver is not suffering from any reluctance. In actuality he won't take no for an answer and in the rare occassions where I have stopped to chat with the other driver, they want to know how a car they used to love in the 80's or their dad's car from the 80's is able to do what it just did. The skill of the other driver is also a big unknown and since it's on public freeways with little or no traffic around there really isn't a great deal of "racing" skill involved. In the case of the 996 in the desert where it was flat and straight, regardless of what gears we jumped down to eventually it ended in our top gears with the pedal to the metal both of us (and his girlfriend) grinning like fools while watching the road and looking at each other. There literally was nothing else to do, except watch for CHP and they eventually did run up on us to look us over.
These stories I hazard to tell from time to time are meant to be entertainment. Whatever happens, and whatever car it happens in, if I tell it online it is meant for your entertainment and amusement. Not as a definitive end all be all of this car can do this or that but I do tell it like is. Also, might I add, I think this is the longest I've seen a thread go without the "don't race on the street" nannies opening their yaps.
12-21-2004, 02:20 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
yes, the skill i mention is what gear to be in. you would be surprised how many folks dont know what rpm to be at to race someone at a particular speed. (even folks on this list may not know for sure, unless they have been paying attention)
yes, once you end up in the top gears and have the pedal to the metal, there is not much you can do. especially if you both are close at that point. if this happens, you may get walked on by a 996, even the early ones that had only 280ish hp. (now they are up to 320 and 355hp stock!!) their top gears are lower than the tall 2.2:1 of the S4. more like the GTS with a top redline speed of the 180mph range. again, if this is the case, you have a 25% disadvantage as far as accelerating torque in your S4 5th gear vs this car. you cant win this battle, as its like you have given up 50-75hp in that gear alone. however, there are really none in the gears below up to 4th. (only the efficiencies that a closer ratio'ed 996 gets in its lower than top gears.
so, quick 2 question test;
1: you are coming up to this 996, he has his girl in the passenger seat, he has got a grin on his face. you look at the speedo, your at 85mph, (you got an S4 with the 2.2:1 rear end) the 996 gives the nod, what gear do you find to try and wipe that grin off his face and paste it on yours?
and:
2: what gear do you select?;
a) a gear that would start your race at an rpm that is at max torque based on your latest dyno run?
b) a gear that gives you the highest rpm with a little room to acclerate?
c) a gear that gives you the longest range to accelerate?
Answers??
Mk
yes, once you end up in the top gears and have the pedal to the metal, there is not much you can do. especially if you both are close at that point. if this happens, you may get walked on by a 996, even the early ones that had only 280ish hp. (now they are up to 320 and 355hp stock!!) their top gears are lower than the tall 2.2:1 of the S4. more like the GTS with a top redline speed of the 180mph range. again, if this is the case, you have a 25% disadvantage as far as accelerating torque in your S4 5th gear vs this car. you cant win this battle, as its like you have given up 50-75hp in that gear alone. however, there are really none in the gears below up to 4th. (only the efficiencies that a closer ratio'ed 996 gets in its lower than top gears.
so, quick 2 question test;
1: you are coming up to this 996, he has his girl in the passenger seat, he has got a grin on his face. you look at the speedo, your at 85mph, (you got an S4 with the 2.2:1 rear end) the 996 gives the nod, what gear do you find to try and wipe that grin off his face and paste it on yours?
and:
2: what gear do you select?;
a) a gear that would start your race at an rpm that is at max torque based on your latest dyno run?
b) a gear that gives you the highest rpm with a little room to acclerate?
c) a gear that gives you the longest range to accelerate?
Answers??
Mk
Originally Posted by Kaz
Ok, this wee
The skill of the other driver is also a big unknown and since it's on public freeways with little or no traffic around there really isn't a great deal of "racing" skill involved. In the case of the 996 in the desert where it was flat and straight, regardless of what gears we jumped down to eventually it ended in our top gears with the pedal to the metal both of us (and his girlfriend) grinning like fools while watching the road and looking at each other. There literally was nothing else to do, except watch for CHP and they eventually did run up on us to look us over.
....... Also, might I add, I think this is the longest I've seen a thread go without the "don't race on the street" nannies opening their yaps.
The skill of the other driver is also a big unknown and since it's on public freeways with little or no traffic around there really isn't a great deal of "racing" skill involved. In the case of the 996 in the desert where it was flat and straight, regardless of what gears we jumped down to eventually it ended in our top gears with the pedal to the metal both of us (and his girlfriend) grinning like fools while watching the road and looking at each other. There literally was nothing else to do, except watch for CHP and they eventually did run up on us to look us over.
....... Also, might I add, I think this is the longest I've seen a thread go without the "don't race on the street" nannies opening their yaps.
12-21-2004, 02:22 PM
#34
Range Master
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You tell stories on the internet and they are fair game for all kinds of critique....sanctioning not required by author.....I am surprised the PC addicts have not swarmed, yet....
But, of course you already know that...........
Any hoo...let us know the results of the holiday meets....real world results are, at a minimum, entertaining.
But, of course you already know that...........
Any hoo...let us know the results of the holiday meets....real world results are, at a minimum, entertaining.
12-21-2004, 02:36 PM
#35
Drifting
this summer just gone i was out driving in the orange menace, on my way into town, small windy b road with no real place to pass when this late model amg badged black mercedes coupe pulls up from a side road with two young punks hanging out, it barely stops before pulling out right behind me and nearly climbing the tailgate. i didnt catch which of the v8 engines it had but it was loud as heck as these guys crawled along behind me in some absurdly low gear looking for a place to pass where there clearly were none. up to this point i was just cruising but i thought i could have some fun! i knew the road ahead and that there was a straight coming where they could pass if there was no traffic. i pulled up at lights to turn onto the larger road with the merc right behind, the lights change and i pull out onto the straight with these guys inches from my rear and looking for space to pass but there was oncoming traffic. by this stage im into 3rd gear and heading for a two lane roundabout, i can see these guys lining up to take the long way round and overtake me under brakes only im not braking! im down into 2nd and accelerating, the road is bone dry and warm so i throw the car into the turn, now hard on the brakes as the back end gets light and helps the nose to point around the 90 degree bend. coming out and onto the dual carriageway ive made up so much ground that i can courteously change lanes and allow the merc to pass! the merc rolls up and these guys are laughing, big thumbs up and they romp away with a huge noise!
12-21-2004, 03:03 PM
#36
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MK,
3rd gear on either Auto or Manual...
Now, if the S4 was not stock, then there would not be a race to begin with... In addition, you mentioned coming up on the 996, so I will venture to say you ahve the advantage of momentum if your gears are matched and the driver of the 996 is not in his correct gear that can take him out of the hole..
I know that in 2nd gear on an S4 Auto, you hit the rev limiter just as you get to 85-87mph indicated on the speedo..... So, in my car, I'd have to be in 3rd gear... (Auto) Now, if it were a 5spd, I'd say there was a better chance to be in the 'band..
Oh, there's that little dead spot in 3rd gear (Auto) right at 80-85 mph that got me thinking I need to get rid of, which started the "quest."
Nick,
Neat story...
Cheers,
3rd gear on either Auto or Manual...
Now, if the S4 was not stock, then there would not be a race to begin with... In addition, you mentioned coming up on the 996, so I will venture to say you ahve the advantage of momentum if your gears are matched and the driver of the 996 is not in his correct gear that can take him out of the hole..
I know that in 2nd gear on an S4 Auto, you hit the rev limiter just as you get to 85-87mph indicated on the speedo..... So, in my car, I'd have to be in 3rd gear... (Auto) Now, if it were a 5spd, I'd say there was a better chance to be in the 'band..
Oh, there's that little dead spot in 3rd gear (Auto) right at 80-85 mph that got me thinking I need to get rid of, which started the "quest."
Nick,
Neat story...
Cheers,
12-21-2004, 05:06 PM
#39
Drifting
richard, its nice to share some hooligan antics from times flying the 928 flag
mark, i didnt know you were offering prizes.. but seeing as you are then im sure the answer is "a" and if you dont like that then we may need arbitration to determine the correct owner for the 2004 race season CD!!
mark, i didnt know you were offering prizes.. but seeing as you are then im sure the answer is "a" and if you dont like that then we may need arbitration to determine the correct owner for the 2004 race season CD!!
12-21-2004, 05:31 PM
#40
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nick,
mark was indeed correct in his decision. dyno-schmyno in my opinion. the edge is being in the seat and feeling the answer! but i will be happy to burn you a copy.(if mark is o.k. with it!)
mark was indeed correct in his decision. dyno-schmyno in my opinion. the edge is being in the seat and feeling the answer! but i will be happy to burn you a copy.(if mark is o.k. with it!)
12-21-2004, 05:47 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
since the fixed starting speed was 85mph, the correct answer is the lowest gear that would give a little room to accelerate. 3rd would give you from 85mph to 111mph, if you look at dyno runs, most of our cars have peaks at 3300rpm or 4200rpm. at 3300rpm in 4th, you would actually have less accelerating torque than you would have in 3rd, due to the increased mechanical advantage.
no arbritration needed. Let me know if you agree.
Mk
no arbritration needed. Let me know if you agree.
Mk
Originally Posted by drnick
richard, its nice to share some hooligan antics from times flying the 928 flag
mark, i didnt know you were offering prizes.. but seeing as you are then im sure the answer is "a" and if you dont like that then we may need arbitration to determine the correct owner for the 2004 race season CD!!
mark, i didnt know you were offering prizes.. but seeing as you are then im sure the answer is "a" and if you dont like that then we may need arbitration to determine the correct owner for the 2004 race season CD!!
12-21-2004, 06:34 PM
#44
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Hey MK,
Seems like I should get a CD as well, as I specifically stated 3rd gear, which would be correct on both a 5spd S4, and an Auto S4...
Nick,
Cheers, I like to fly the flag as well on occasion...!
Seems like I should get a CD as well, as I specifically stated 3rd gear, which would be correct on both a 5spd S4, and an Auto S4...
Nick,
Cheers, I like to fly the flag as well on occasion...!
12-21-2004, 06:47 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
ok, it was close to a tie. but you have to copy it and send it to Nick.
send me your address again if i dont have it.,
by the way. the actual numbers of the comparison are as follows
3-4th gear shift 1.25 or .8
peak torque is at 4200(ish) (335ftlbs) in 4th, and in 3rd that would be 5200rpm. (310ftlbs)
on a 335 ftlb torque S4 at peak about 4,200rpm, or 3300rpm (other peak torque), that brings equivilant torque in 3rd with a 1.25x mechanical advantage vs 4th, even though there is a -25 ftlb engine torque difference at the higher rpm, to about +50ft lbs of an advantage in 3rd gear. (+16% net diff)
now, you racers, start your races at rpms greater than 4.5-5k if you can!
MK
send me your address again if i dont have it.,
by the way. the actual numbers of the comparison are as follows
3-4th gear shift 1.25 or .8
peak torque is at 4200(ish) (335ftlbs) in 4th, and in 3rd that would be 5200rpm. (310ftlbs)
on a 335 ftlb torque S4 at peak about 4,200rpm, or 3300rpm (other peak torque), that brings equivilant torque in 3rd with a 1.25x mechanical advantage vs 4th, even though there is a -25 ftlb engine torque difference at the higher rpm, to about +50ft lbs of an advantage in 3rd gear. (+16% net diff)
now, you racers, start your races at rpms greater than 4.5-5k if you can!
MK
Originally Posted by blau928
Hey MK,
Seems like I should get a CD as well, as I specifically stated 3rd gear, which would be correct on both a 5spd S4, and an Auto S4...
Nick,
Cheers, I like to fly the flag as well on occasion...!
Seems like I should get a CD as well, as I specifically stated 3rd gear, which would be correct on both a 5spd S4, and an Auto S4...
Nick,
Cheers, I like to fly the flag as well on occasion...!
Last edited by mark kibort; 12-21-2004 at 07:14 PM.