Need Rennlist Help
01-02-2005, 07:03 PM
#31
Burning Brakes
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I think I'm going to second the motion for fuel pump. I've been here with both of mine and new fuel pump(s) fixed very similar symptoms. The pressure and volume tests will tell you for sure. You might also clean up the pump fuse connections and carefully remove/insert the fuel and brain relays a few times to swipe the prongs clean. Good luck and have faith. You'll find your mojo again.
01-02-2005, 08:47 PM
#32
Originally Posted by whall
Jeff,
I did try changing the fuel relay with no change in the problem. I will keep you updated as I check things. Your description sounds identical to mine. My guess right now is fuel but I will know more shortly.
W
I did try changing the fuel relay with no change in the problem. I will keep you updated as I check things. Your description sounds identical to mine. My guess right now is fuel but I will know more shortly.
W
I cametothe very same conclusion. When I turn the key I can hear the pump come on. I broke the line to see if I had pressure I did. After the car fires .. it turns right off. The fuel pumpis now off and there is no pressure. Soooooo There is some kind of electrical problem that is turning off the fuel pume after it fires. And some time when I can get it to idle its on and off rythmically. Something simple is gone in the puppy. Just havent narrowed it down yet haha
01-02-2005, 08:51 PM
#33
Pro
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Just bought a guage but the local Hose / Fittings business is not open today so I can not mount it. I will go down tomorrow to get the fittings and check out the fuel pressure. I decided to buy a fuel pressure guage that installs permanently.
01-02-2005, 09:26 PM
#34
Originally Posted by whall
Just bought a guage but the local Hose / Fittings business is not open today so I can not mount it. I will go down tomorrow to get the fittings and check out the fuel pressure. I decided to buy a fuel pressure guage that installs permanently.
Great idea. I'll be doin the same
01-03-2005, 02:40 PM
#35
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Update:
Checked fuel pressure goes to 35 to 40 and holds when shut off. Can I assume that I have no fuel problem and should start on the electrical side of the equation. According to the manual, if the pressure checks out on the rail, then the pump is fine.
Thanks again.
Checked fuel pressure goes to 35 to 40 and holds when shut off. Can I assume that I have no fuel problem and should start on the electrical side of the equation. According to the manual, if the pressure checks out on the rail, then the pump is fine.
Thanks again.
01-03-2005, 02:59 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
It's half the story - the other part is to check if the flow rate is OK.... that test is in the manuals also.
Have you checked the O2 sensor signal (loop still connected) ? Could be an O2 loop problem.
Have you checked the O2 sensor signal (loop still connected) ? Could be an O2 loop problem.
01-03-2005, 04:02 PM
#38
Flow is in liters per hour (LPH), I think.
The break down per second or minute is in the WSM.
When the pump shuts off the check valve will maintain pressure (hopefully) forward of the check valve so while you may have adequate pressure at the fuel rail or on a FPG mounted on the rail it won't necessarally tell you if your fuel pump is dying.
If you do the flow check from forward of the pump into a container check for sediment.
Other than that I'd lean toward the MAF and or a coil in the process of dying.
One other thing, that initial miss you mentioned upon de-acceleration MIGHT point to the belt jumping.
If you run out of options pull the covers rather than doing the simple compression test.
There is a recent Dec/Jan TB show and tell here on the forum that will get to where you need to be in 15 to 45 minutes. Check the cam belt marks and do the engine/wrench run thrus' till you are satisfied there was no belt/tooth jump. If there is someone close by with a Kemph Tool and instruction sheet, mooch it or have someone ship it to you for a temp loan for a tension check while you are in there -not rocket science, you can do it. That check alone will reduce ulcer worries by 50% and lower your blood pressure as well. Hang in there buddy.
The break down per second or minute is in the WSM.
When the pump shuts off the check valve will maintain pressure (hopefully) forward of the check valve so while you may have adequate pressure at the fuel rail or on a FPG mounted on the rail it won't necessarally tell you if your fuel pump is dying.
If you do the flow check from forward of the pump into a container check for sediment.
Other than that I'd lean toward the MAF and or a coil in the process of dying.
One other thing, that initial miss you mentioned upon de-acceleration MIGHT point to the belt jumping.
If you run out of options pull the covers rather than doing the simple compression test.
There is a recent Dec/Jan TB show and tell here on the forum that will get to where you need to be in 15 to 45 minutes. Check the cam belt marks and do the engine/wrench run thrus' till you are satisfied there was no belt/tooth jump. If there is someone close by with a Kemph Tool and instruction sheet, mooch it or have someone ship it to you for a temp loan for a tension check while you are in there -not rocket science, you can do it. That check alone will reduce ulcer worries by 50% and lower your blood pressure as well. Hang in there buddy.
01-03-2005, 06:43 PM
#39
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John,
Thanks for the encouragement. I enjoy working on the car but I am finding this a "liitle" frustrating. Not to bad yet though.
Okay, now I have had the coils checked and they are excellent - no problems. Now I am going to pull distributor caps and clean and check and check timing belt to ensure it did not jump. Will update after these checks.
Thanks for the encouragement. I enjoy working on the car but I am finding this a "liitle" frustrating. Not to bad yet though.
Okay, now I have had the coils checked and they are excellent - no problems. Now I am going to pull distributor caps and clean and check and check timing belt to ensure it did not jump. Will update after these checks.
01-03-2005, 09:04 PM
#40
Me again.
There was a rpm drop thread or two between Sep and now where the final check on the fuel pump was a comparison of feed voltage versus draw. the feed was ok, around 12volts but the draw was significantly off somewhere around 5 or 8 volts - adios fuel pump.
The other one I think turned out to be the MAF or ECU.
Wally or John Speake posted the pin-out micro voltages for the injectors once upon a time and they should also be in the WSM's if you know how to track them down. Check the archives and the Greg Nichols site.
The real fun doesn't start till the electrical gremlins start partying ... somewhere ... in your sHARk.
Pattycakes layed a new one on me last Friday when I shut down at work. I noticed the right front marker was still on as I walked away. Checked the light switch, it was off??? Turned the switch on and off, still on. Turn signal was off, 4 way flashers were off ???
Turned, the switch on and off several, about 10, times and that single marker light finally went out.
WTF! Switch I guess ...
Still love the sHARk warts and all.
There was a rpm drop thread or two between Sep and now where the final check on the fuel pump was a comparison of feed voltage versus draw. the feed was ok, around 12volts but the draw was significantly off somewhere around 5 or 8 volts - adios fuel pump.
The other one I think turned out to be the MAF or ECU.
Wally or John Speake posted the pin-out micro voltages for the injectors once upon a time and they should also be in the WSM's if you know how to track them down. Check the archives and the Greg Nichols site.
The real fun doesn't start till the electrical gremlins start partying ... somewhere ... in your sHARk.
Pattycakes layed a new one on me last Friday when I shut down at work. I noticed the right front marker was still on as I walked away. Checked the light switch, it was off??? Turned the switch on and off, still on. Turn signal was off, 4 way flashers were off ???
Turned, the switch on and off several, about 10, times and that single marker light finally went out.
WTF! Switch I guess ...
Still love the sHARk warts and all.
01-04-2005, 02:31 AM
#41
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IT RUNS GREAT -THANKS RENNLIST
Once again: Thanks to all on Rennlist that offered advice - you people are awesome. The car is running awesome. I worked through all suggestions and now I can get onto the winter projects of new exhaust, timing belt, etc.
Thanks again!!!!
Thanks again!!!!
01-04-2005, 02:58 AM
#43
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Dave,
I figured I would have to come clean. I feel a little stupid because it was much more simple than expected. Here goes: First, in my defense, remember I just bought the car a few months ago and hadn't gone over everything. I had replaced the plugs and done a few other maintenance items. I checked that all of the wires were tight, etc. ANYWAYS, today when I was pulling the distributor caps, I found, (one on each side) a broken plug wire boot (ceramic stuck inside the distriboutor). In all of my years, pulling hundreds, if not thousands of plug wire boots, I have never seen one broken until today when I saw two. I drove around town until I found a couple of plugs that I could mickey mouse together to try and sure enough, the car runs like a top. I am so excited that I will be driving it again this summer. Again, I want to thank everyone who provided guidance.
Note: has anyone else ever had broken ceramics on the coil side of the plug boots? Very odd but that's what it was....
I figured I would have to come clean. I feel a little stupid because it was much more simple than expected. Here goes: First, in my defense, remember I just bought the car a few months ago and hadn't gone over everything. I had replaced the plugs and done a few other maintenance items. I checked that all of the wires were tight, etc. ANYWAYS, today when I was pulling the distributor caps, I found, (one on each side) a broken plug wire boot (ceramic stuck inside the distriboutor). In all of my years, pulling hundreds, if not thousands of plug wire boots, I have never seen one broken until today when I saw two. I drove around town until I found a couple of plugs that I could mickey mouse together to try and sure enough, the car runs like a top. I am so excited that I will be driving it again this summer. Again, I want to thank everyone who provided guidance.
Note: has anyone else ever had broken ceramics on the coil side of the plug boots? Very odd but that's what it was....
01-04-2005, 04:31 AM
#44
Rennlist Member
Awesome Warren! Another success story! See, that wasn't so bad, was it? 
Thanks for closing the loop on that.... it's helpful to everyone to know the final outcome, especially the next guy who comes along and searches the archives. 
Note that on the 928 the resistance is not in the plug wire but in the connector. I'm not sure if this applies only to the plug wires or to the coil wires as well, but someone here will know for sure. Also you could ask any of the big 3; I'm sure they can get you the correct ends if a straight conductor is not appropriate there.
Thanks for closing the loop on that.... it's helpful to everyone to know the final outcome, especially the next guy who comes along and searches the archives. Note that on the 928 the resistance is not in the plug wire but in the connector. I'm not sure if this applies only to the plug wires or to the coil wires as well, but someone here will know for sure. Also you could ask any of the big 3; I'm sure they can get you the correct ends if a straight conductor is not appropriate there.
