Garth

Certainly. There is an S4 that did this in the NW that had great results at the track. Adam B. was very happy with his braking with a GTS (Big Red) sized front brake upgrade on his 88S4. He mentioned that there was no brake fade compared to before upgrade.

Even with the 55 bar rear bias valve, the rear caliper temperatures never approarched the front during track events. If you are pushing hard at the track or have a high HP application, I might suggest upgrading the rears. I suspect that upgrading the fronts will get you what you want.

One thing the you might look at is a non-turbo 993 rear caliper. I'm not sure if machining is require to fit on the mounting, but I've been told it does give you a bigger bite on the same sized S4/GT/GTS rear rotor.

Brent 89-GT

I have the GTS front brake upgrade on my car with the stock rears and a 33 bar bias valve. I never ran it on the track with the stock brakes but I can say that fade is not an issue at all on the racetrack, pushing pretty hard. In fact, I never realized the full potential of the brakes, I couldn't bring myself to wait that long to start braking! I think most guys do well with the stock set up and track pads, the GTS upgrade and stock engine power will be more than enough. If you do not plan to take the car on the track, the upgrade will get you nothing on the street. The stockers are more than enough for that.

Dennis K

I have the DEVEK big red package on all four corners of my track car. I love 'em. I've had them for three years now (over 50 track days) and have never had a problem with fade, ever. With most other types of cars at the track, the first concern is the brakes. I never have to worry about mine. Cosmetically, the 993TT brakes are much nicer with those humungous red calipers and the cross-drilled rotors. I'd get them just for the looks.

*edit for picture*

Richard S

Great pic Dennis. Any more track days coming up this fall?

Rich

Brent 89-GT

The red ones just wouldn't have looked right on my dark red car. I went for the less trendy, less expensive black GTS versions. The radial drilled Porsche rotors do look very cool though

Nobody has mentioned it yet but 17" wheels are required to fit the larger rotors and calipers, budget accordingly.

Adam C

Excellent info, guys. Incidentally, I am doing this upgrade next week in preparation for a supercharger kit, so now you have the context.

mark kibort

just paint your S4 calipers red and you will have the same effect in almost all circumstances.

if you plan on visiting road america and have 450hp at the wheels, invest in the big reds or GTS brakes, otherwise, you are wasting your money!!! even Jean L P had Stock S brakes (single piston calipers) at Road america and he didnt seem to have too much problem with fade or brake power. i race with the S brakes for 5 years with no issues. Now, with S4 brakes, i get a better feel, less wear on the pads 2-3 events vs 1-2 events with the old S brakes. you will never use the full capability of the S4 brakes with racing pads unless you are at a big track and do this racing thing for a few years first!!!

Paint 'em red!! nobody will ever know the difference.

mk

Adam C

Seriously, Mark?

I'm thinking that Murf928 or maybe Supermodel kit -They are saying 450HP at the wheels - leave the brake stock?

Serious?

hacker-pschorr

Adam,
Talk to Tim Murphy directly before you spend all kinds of money on brake's. His car has 556hp at the wheels with stock 1988 S4 brake's. I've ridden in his car plenty of times and don't recall any brake issues. For the street, the stock S4 brake's are spectacular units, the car I posted with AP 6-piston calipers is a track car.
The right brake pads will make a much bigger difference than a slightly larger caliper.

jorj7

Adam,

I'm running a s/c on my 928S4 and stock brakes. I find that they
are more then adequate for street, occasional track, and Open
Road Racing. Just make sure you have good pads, good brake lines,
and use Super Blue high temp brake fluid. If I were seriously tracking
the car, then I might consider the upgrade, but only after I had learned
the car and it's limitation. IMO the driver is a bigger hinderance to
going fast on a track then the brakes, engine, suspension, etc., so learn
how to drive well, then spend lots of money on the car.

Jim bailey - 928 International

It makes little difference whether your car has 200 hp or 500 hp . What matters is how many successive stops you make quickly from 140 to 30 MPH. As Mark points out on the street you probably can not use the brakes hard enough to see much difference with out getting arrested Until you experience brake fade bigger brakes really do not stop you faster as long as you can lock up the wheels or engage the antilock you are slowing as fast as the TIRES are capable of stopping. The limiting factor is always the tires. My guess is 99.9% of the time you will NOT be using 450 HP or going 150 mph.

Red UFO

Its just a vanity issue then.

My question is how long does the red last until brake dust is caked on and heated into the paint?
Does it take a crap load of cleaning to get them looking good, or will they go to **** if you don't stay on top of cleaning them.

Adam C

Thanks guys, guess it will be pads and rotors then.

BTW, I painted the brakes red on my last S4 and they looked great and were wasy to clean afterwards.

I will not be racing the car - street applications only.

mark kibort

to cars handling the same, same tires , etc. 500hp vs 200hp would be a big difference, infact, HUGE difference. Just take turn 3 at road america. mark gets up to 160mph, while a 200hp car would get up to barely 130. power to speed up and slow down go up with the cube of the velocity. both cars will take the turn at the same speed, but the faster car will punish the brakes and tires much more. However, your right, on the street, you will NEVER experience any issues with the S4 brakes. MANY cars have raced professionally, and won big time races on these S4 brakes. as you say, its pads, fluid, and driver that determine the stopping effectiveness of your car.

funny, i trash on my car on the street. lots of hard stops, pushing the car to 80% or so on some mountain roads, and even during my brake bed-in runs where i think im cooking my brakes, the pagid orange color is still on 75% of the pad. one session on race day, the pads are so hot that they turn completely black, and the first 25% is white!!!!. you just cant do this on the street. i dont care who you are and certainly not in open road racing, where there are no 200mph to 40mph turns in 200feet!! remember our cars that put out 400-500hp are expected to put out 1500hp in stopping power!!! pretty amazing when you think of the power source. 500lb engine vs 30bs of brake pads and rotors.

so, autox , road race, etc., all you want. all you will ever get is a soft pedal. you will not get fade with the S4 brakes with pagid orange pads or equiv.

rambling on.......

Mark

hacker-pschorr

Mark - I'll let you know how much power it takes to reach 130mph into turn 3 - so far I'm not even close. Then again, having 200hp would be nice.......next year.