Thio

Hi everyone

Thanks for your help with my previous situation. The car started and idled the first couple of starts, but now it will not start. The engine will turn over and the engine will run, but at an extremely low rpm. Sometimes, we would have to floor the pedal to get the engine running. It will not idle normally, but very rough. And also, when the engine turns over, there is sort of this scraping sound. I do not know where it is coming from, but it is there. Edit: Also, while we were cranking the engine, we noticed that the oil pressure would go up to 2 and then fall. We did not pay attention to the oil pressure gauge when the car idled, so I do not know what the "normal" is.

So far, we replaced/added:

ignition coil
fuel pump
fuel filter
belt dressing

For some people who do not know what happened in my previous thread: the car would not start, and there was no buzzing noise in the passenger side, rear. Replaced the fuel pump and the car ran! And now this ...

Any ideas?

Oh, and are there any good shops in the Bay Area that can repair/restore 928s?

Thank you

Airflite40

I don't know about the scraping sound, but you could have massive vaccuum leaks. Check out the hoses.

Thio

bump

Randy V

For a premier 928 shop in your area try DEVEK - www.devek.net

John Struthers

Check the road help list for fellow sHARk owners locally.
Look at the avatars/footers for threads and replies you might find someone nearby to give your ride a once over.
As to scraping sound; This is a wild guess...
Lift Hood.
Look/lean over the radiator.
Slowly spin the fan.

I think either the goo has drained out of your fan clutch, or, for some reason the fan blades are scraping the shroud.
Shaft could be running on an elliptic, or shroud could be missing fasteners/broke/out of place.
There are two pieces to the shroud - upper and lower- held by 2 bolts apiece (I think). The aluminum fan hitting the shroud will give you a more metallic than plastic scraping sound -don't ask how I know.
Someone knowledgeable about shot water pumps might have more info on that subject but I don't recall any posts mentioning noises with a failed H2O pump.
Lastly , a loose timing belt -Danger Will Robinson, Danger!- could be scraping the plastic cam covers, the tensioner and or rollers could be squealing/scraping.
Welcome to the worlds premiere sHARk familiarization course.
I really think for your engine non start condition you need to talk to Dennis Wilson for a primer and or thorough education on 78/79 models and the fabled WUR fuel system inspection and home rebuild...he is a friendly fuel system demi-god -that's a 1/2 step higher in rank than a GURU-.

Bill Ball

Thio:

Where are you in the Bay Area? I'd be glad to come over and take a look at your car and troubleshoot.

As Randy said, DEVEK is in the neighborhood. You should (will) get to know them.

GIO

Hi Thio
I have a very simple solution that worked on my 1988 928 S4 after going thru the same problems that you mentioned. This is the deal, in my car the gas tank created vacuum thus enabling the fuel pump to work properly and I probable burned couple of them thinking I have fuel relater issues .So Thio before you spend any hard earned Moneys take the gas cap off and crank that Baby.

PS.
If that solves your problem I want a cold
One, and don’t drill the gas cap just take
The seal and cut a notch .

Marc Schwager

GIO, Y

ou may have a clogged line or a clogged charcoal canister or something. AFAIK, it is not a normal operating procedure to cut a hole in the seal of the gas cap - even on one of those newfangled S4s

dale_loch

.

Thio

Bill, I think I will take a raincheck on that If it runs, probably my dad and I can take it to Devek Days? Depends if the car can run or not. Thank you though.

Yesterday, my dad and I tried to start the engine, and it was almost successful the first time. It would rev up and then die down slowly. Every time we let the car sit and then start it again, it will be almost there on the first crank, but on the next cranks, it would not start.

Could it be fuel starvation? If so, is it because there is not enough fuel pressure?

autochicago

1. Scraping sounds bad. Altho on this vintage if it's a timing belt you won't bend valves, so it's not a 9-1-1 situation, so continue, but if you do get it running I wouldn't do any trips other than around your neighborhood until you isolate the noise.

But, for now, here we go...

2. VERY FAMILIAR. I know this symptom as I have experienced it with the early cars after failed fuel delivery system parts (usually fuel pump, but also disintegrating fuel lines and fuel contamination). If you replaced a bad fuel pump, it more than likely was spewing some shards of whatever ailed it through the filter, and some happen to make it as far as the engine. On the driver's side of the fuel distributor inlet (if you cannot locate this piece, I'm not sure I would go looking very hard ... find someone out there that can assist you), if you unscrew the inlet pipe (front-most large hard line) requires some other disassembly, as you will find out), within the hex fitting at the fuel distrib there is a fine-meshed filter screen, most likely clogged up with shards. Pull this part off of the fuel distributor and clean it out very well, from behind, as well. You may need to use tweezers to get any embedded metal shavings out.

Be careful continuing to run the pump. With this inlet filter clogged, you will quickly weed out any weak ([over-]pressurized) link fuel lines in the car. It's a good and a bad thing -- good to find them, but a mess and potentially dangerous when it happens.

I attached a pic with an arrow to the fitting in question.

Start there, and once you verify this aspect, I can walk you through some more.

BTW if you need more CIS rebuild pics, I do have.

Good luck. Were I in NorCal, I'd certainly help first-hand.

autochicago

BTW forgot to ask, have you had this car running (more than a "couple of starts") before?

Thio

The car was running before, and then we heard a squeaking sound, so we decided to stop the engine and find out where the squeaking sound came from. When we wanted to start the car up again two days later, it would not start.

We thought that it was the fuel filter because we thought we put it in the wrong direction (with the arrow facing the fuel line coming from the tank). We got a new one, pointed the arrow toward the fuel line going to the engine and the same thing happened: it will not start. Over the next few days, the car would start revving higher and higher on the first try, and today the engine almost caught on, but it died down.

Today, we noticed that the oil pressure gauge was showing some weird behavior. When the engine would try to rev up to idle at its normal RPM, the gauge would go to five, and then the revolutions would die down.

Is that supposed to happen? We are thinking about changing the oil and the oil filter sometime tonight or tomorrow to see if the oil is the cause of the engine not idling.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions so far! It would be one sweet ride once it is up and running

autochicago

hmm. Highly doubtful that oil quality is the source of your problems. Maybe yet another symptom, but not a cause.

You've stated that the car cranks and will run, briefly.

I make no explicit warranties about the next procedure, expressed or implied, nor assume any liability (volatile airborne fuel being sprayed into intake tract -- usually not a problem, but exercise caution, please)...

You can verify whether or not it's fuel starvation by feeding it more of what it needs. That is, pull off the air cleaner housing, at least enough to spray some starting fluid in there (you crank, dad squirt), or carb cleaner is just as well for a short stint. I'm guessing your issue is starvation, and, if so, it should seem to want to run and stay running with a supply of fuel which is what you are supplying with starting fluid/carb clean.

Note: this is only a quick check substitution for what a CIS gauge set would otherwise tell a seasoned diagnosis professional. In other words, enough to tell you whether or not you need to further dig into it. However, since you dug into replacing a fuel pump, I'd highly recommend you dig into checking that inlet screen.

There are certainly many possibilities, but that is the first thing I would look to.

As far as oil pressure goes, there is the slight possibility that the oil pump itself has failed to where it is in some way scraping, pulley or internally, but that phenomena is a rarity, so I only mention it as a precaution. If you find that, once running, oil pressure is not normal, and have reservations, shut down right away and seek professional assistance.

Good luck

Thio

Thank you autochicago

We will check that screen tomorrow to see what is there. I will update as soon as we have done that.