Darklands

Dave, your story remember me about my farmer neighbor kids with a cross beetle.
Demounting the driver housing and put one seat in the middle of the frame and the pedals.
Lot of fun till the car breaks!
Good times without smart phones! Doing real things outside!

tv

Wow this is like reading a novel.

Random thoughts;

Most people buying older cars today (like 928's) have NO CLUE what they are buying. They have lots of money from somewhere but no knowledge. Anyone know the age brackets of these people?

Anyone spending the money posted above on 355/348's have rocks in their head. Little ****boxes that have aged poorly with offset pedals and cheaply built - just watch rattarossa ---- also because no company has upped their game more than Ferrari, from the 458 till now their line-up lookswise, performance, and interior is night and day different to the earlier crap. TDF's, SF90XX, F8, Roma .............

63 split window vette is the best looking vette ever made.

The 928 is the best looking car, gets better with age, best curves and shape. (as we have seen with that horrible exterior on the privateer remake) The interior is perfect. The handling is still amazing, 50/50 low. The 87 remodel was a slight downgrade. The euro S is the best of the 16V. I got lucky and got the best of the best of the best. The only thing most 928s need is an aftermarket exhaust. (somebody with money wanting a great 928 experience should buy and early US version and swap the engine with one going into the privateer model)

Kiln_Red

I think an F355 Spider is a good value. I prefer it over many cars with higher valuations. Also, I'm not sure if I could disagree more with your take that they're poorly made. Personally, I enjoy the offset pedal arrangement. I find it to be a pretty enabling seating posture for prompt gated shifter operation.

Interestingly, we're pretty close with regard to the 928. Guess this just goes to illustrate the subjective nature of all of this. It's a fun chat nonetheless.

tv

offsets would drive me nutz. Ferrari interiors even up the 360 are agricultural, is that the word. Primitive. not as bad as lambo but close. and the construction is not much better. This guy has torn apart most ferraris in this conversation.

The 928 interior if you have full leather is so MUCH better, ergonomically and quality. Last time I was at the RR dealer I was disappointed in the comparison. That marketing line was NOT BS. Nothing as fast is as luxurious and nothing as luxurious is as fast.

rufrob

I'm glad the 928 is finally getting some light. Every time I work on one I'm amazed at the engineering and quality parts that went into it. I was offered a F348 GTB way back when and turned it down in favor of a a 928s4 solely because of the maintenance cost. The 928 is a very DIY car with easy parts availability compared to any Ferrari.
I do regret not getting a 964 3.3 turbo when they were 25-30k here. Now the same car I passed on was traded in for 200,000k. Insane.
I've always loved the 928 call it nostalgia or whatever the car is beautiful to me. Like the E34 M5 the most beautiful sedan ever.
But my 996tt does run circles around the 928 in every way. It's not fair to compare cars almost 10 years apart in model years and 30 years apart in development, but we do. If only there was a way to put more modern engine management into this S4. I guess one could extract another 50bhp and torque.

928cs

Very interesting video, that clearly illustrates the problem there is when car's parts worth more than a nearly complete car.
What a pity.

928 GT R

The article is a fair representation of the 928 from a value perspective IMO. I have collected a decent sample of the later cars as a function of focus of knowledge and spare parts efficiency. I have a few friends that focus similarly on the early cars. It's easy to love all 928's for me...

The "smoothed" styling of the S4 and later cars is extremely appealing to me and I often wonder what the 928 would have evolved into if it had survived. Considering the current super coupes of Mercedes and Audi, it would have been spectacular. But that is not what happened...

As enthusiasts, we are left to either maintain, or try to improve our 928's and I find myself immersed in both endeavors since I own several ultra low mile examples that I have to run through their paces every year and others that I get to drive hard and explore the limits of. To me there is a difference! Steward vs consumer...

Fortunately, my garage has exceptional climate control and sits year round between 50 & 65 degrees at about 25% humidity. Cars that live there are protected from the vast majority of the effects of sun, humidity and heat...

From Hagerty's perspective in the article, they seem to be looking for a value position for the uninitiated that may be looking for a 928 that is within reach financially. They are absolutely right about buying a well maintained car. It is imperative. Fortunately there are many enthusiastic owners that much of the maintenance as a matter of routine. Many of us have virtual love affairs with our cars and they are in fantastic condition.

Unfortunately I see almost no 928's on the road and I'm the only guy taking mine to cars-n-coffee around here. There might be 200 cars, but out of all that variety, I'm the only guy rotating cool 928's from weekend to weekend.

In the case of the 928 - obscure does not mean outdated. It is a timeless design.

hacker-pschorr

I felt the same way about Ferrari ownership until I actually had one, a 15k mile 355GTS manual fell into my lap and I had the pleasure of taking care of that car (which involved a lot of driving) for over 15,000+ miles.

When I was a kid, I would take apart everything that arrived at the house. New toaster? Where is dads screwdriver...... Same with the 355.
I immediately started to take it apart to "get to know" everything. I was amazed at how well put together everything was and how simple things were. The 355 is an absolute pleasure to work on but sadly I didn't get many chances to actually work on it due to how reliable it was.

Over the 15,000 miles it was under my care, the only failed part was a thermostat which took maybe a 1/2 hour to replace.
This did include an engine out service which I started on a Monday morning and by Friday afternoon it was back on the road. Now I could do such a job in 2-3 days assuming I had all the parts already on hand.

As mentioned above, the biggest issue most have with owning a Ferrari is not driving them and / or not driving them properly. The first time my father took his 355 for a spin I was along for the ride to point a few things out like the oil and coolant temp gauges. I instructed him to "take it easy" until both of these reach full temp.... "Then you better hit redline at least 2-3 times after that before shutting it down". I was dead serious, and he abided.

My parents took that Ferrari everywhere. While it wasn't my mothers favorite car to drive, she felt it very easy to hop in and run to the store (for small trips, trunk isn't that big).

I'm always keeping an eye out for a 355 that's high mileage (for a Ferrari, like 50k-60k or more) that's due for the engine out service. Spend the winter sorted it out and I'd absolutely daily drive it without worry.

Painful is more like it. Here I thought the 355 was mentioned a few times in this thread, not the 348. That's like someone asking about a pristine 928GTS and you post a video about a junkyard 78 you are trying to save while only using parts from JC Whitney and duct tape.

He spends two minutes complaining about the battery because in his previous 348 with the forward battery location, he failed to keep the battery charged. I'm not sure about the 348, but the 355 has battery jump post terminals in the engine compartment just like the 928.

Plasti-Dip on the interior? Talk about amateur hour. It's been well documented for close to two decades how to DIY the sticky pieces of a Ferrari interior (and yes I refurbished the bits in my fathers car). Plasti-Dip isn't recommended.

I don't think this is unique to the 928, just "classic" cars in general. I rarely see 944's except for the friends that own one. Even C5 and C4 Corvettes (much less pre C4's) are few and far between except for car events. This past weekend at Road America there were so may C8's you'd have thought it was a C8 convention. Meanwhile all the rest of the model lines were scarce, especially mid-years.
Ferrari's too. I saw I think one 355, a couple of 550's, and a slew of every various model from the last 10-15 years.

Looks are subjective, quality and actually driving them (stock for stock) they are one of the worst. Or at least the worst of all the mid-years.

tv

Ratarossa has probably forgot more about Ferraris than anyone other than full time mechanics. He has owned-taken apart-rebuilt every 8 cylinder from the 308 -> 430. If you watch his videos you get the see HOW those cars were built and it is NOT impressive up thru the 348. STARTING with the 355 they dropped the crappy tubular framing and ****ty welds and went to more beefed up BOX framing.

Let's not forget our 928 build did not change and was way stronger and much better built from 1978! The 348 ended production in 1995! 15 years later still inferior to the 928.

These seats look barely 1 step above the lotus seats I posted here before. Ferrari coachwork WAS embarrassingly mediocre until the last 15 years.

Years ago I used to go on rides with ferraris, 348's were not as fast as my euro.

BOTTOM LINE - 928's (esp euro + later) WAY UNDERRATED and pre2000 Ferraris WAY OVERRATED



Hacker - here's the RAT working on a 355

hacker-pschorr

Whoopie do. Doesn't change the fact that the video you decided to post is a complete fail. I'm not a fan of the 348 myself, never cared for the looks among other things.

Yes, we all know your Euro 928 is the greatest 928 on the planet and the 928 is the greatest car on the planet. You never hesitate to remind us. We get it, thank you again for the reminder.

I also fully understand you are a top expert when it comes to Ferrari's

rufrob

I totally agree. The 355 is a step above the 348 which i passed on. Funny I saw a 928s4 on the road recently and it actually looks small compared to the majority of modern cars.
Still looks fresh.
Can't really see Porsche bringing it back. The AMG GT / SL struggles to keep up with the 911 as is.
I also have a W210 E55 with that sweet super reliable M113 which puts out 350ish not far off the 315 of the 928 which feels lazier. Is it the twin spark or overly complex throttle linkage?

hacker-pschorr

Yea, I think the "big and heavy" reputation the 928 had was strictly within the family. Compared to a 914 and same period 911 it was heavy and with weight comes an automatic image of size, whether it's accurate or not wasn't relevant to the perception.

When in reality a 78 928 was only 6" longer than a same year 911. 2" wider than an early 930......the 930's were actually an inch taller. But... a mid 70's 911 is about 2,500lbs where as most 928's are 3,200 for early cars going up year after year.

Beyond that, the 928 was never a "big" car, even by late 70's standards. Very similar in size to a C3 Corvette (which looks tiny next to a new Camaro, but then again, so do c5's).

But that stigma of a "big and heavy" Porsche will never go away. We'll hear it mentioned time and time again by folks who are simply repeating what they've heard.


EDIT - just had a random thought..... Over the weekend having such conversations with a few folks I mentioned how much I wanted a 1st generation Viper Roadster. A couple comments were made on such a big, bulbous car they are.

They are 3" shorter in length and 7" shorter in height than an S4 and a whopping 1" wider. But the perception, guessing due to the muscular overall design, is they are a big bulbous car.

8cyl

Hear, hear on the size. I imagine similar was said about certain historic Lotus models. It's all relative to the rest of the family. It hit me how small the 928 really was when I first bought mine and parked next to a Suzuki Swift, a car classed as subcompact today!

On weight yeah sorry I don't buy it either especially comparing to the 930 again which started at about 2980lbs in 3.3L trim. People talk about the 928 like it weighed as much as an Aston or Bentley, it grinds my gears.

Babado

You guys are killing me with all the Ferrari talk. My favorite car of all time is as close to a 928 in looks as you find and as far as I'm concerned in the top 3 of the most beautiful cars ever built!
71 Daytona 365 GTB4

Damn sexy!

hacker-pschorr

IMO the Daytona is a big reason why the 928 exists at all. It was one of the cars that made Porsche look into the future where GT's were favored over light and nimble, bare bones sports cars (a 68 911 was 2,300lbs / 912 2,100lbs).