Bad clutch master?
#1
Bad clutch master?
I'm hoping I'm overthinking this. For my 5spd swap the donor car clutch went from resting position to the floor almost instantly. I disassembled everything and there was fluid in the lines and no other apparent obvious issues.
Now I'm ready to mount the bracket and master onto the firewall (see my swap thread) but when I bench bleed the master I'm getting zero fluid into the master and out of the front. I have the fluid in a funnel on the blue hose and I'm pushing the rod slowly, repeatedly, and nothing. There was also lots of crud inside on both ends Clutch master is probably bad but I thought I'd get a second opinion since It's a critical step.
Now I'm ready to mount the bracket and master onto the firewall (see my swap thread) but when I bench bleed the master I'm getting zero fluid into the master and out of the front. I have the fluid in a funnel on the blue hose and I'm pushing the rod slowly, repeatedly, and nothing. There was also lots of crud inside on both ends Clutch master is probably bad but I thought I'd get a second opinion since It's a critical step.
#2
I think you have a bad master. I was in traffic and my clutch pedal went to the floor at a traffic light and after I was towed home could find no signs of a leak anywhere. I suspect the fluid was bypassing the seals inside the MC. Swapped the MC with a new one for $90 and all was well. Consider replacing the MC piston in-situ if you have the 10" brake booster and it's already installed. It's really tight in there.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...n-the-car.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...n-the-car.html
Last edited by jschiller; 05-06-2023 at 12:15 PM.
#3
Originally Posted by jschiller
I think you have a bad master. I was in traffic and my clutch pedal went to the floor at a traffic light and after I was towed home could find no signs of a leak anywhere. I suspect the fluid was bypassing the seals inside the MC. Swapped the MC with a new one for $90 and all was well. Consider replacing the MC piston in-situ if you have the 10" brake booster and it's already installed. It's really tight in there.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...n-the-car.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...n-the-car.html
#4
928 Clutch can be a bit difficult to bleed becasue of the helper spring. Here is a 2 step procedure that will produce a very firm pedal quickly and easily, new MC or not. This works just fine with the OE clutch line setup or any other clutch line.
Step 1. Gravity bleed clutch by filling reservoir and opening the line or bleeder. Pumping pedal by hand and open the bleeder in the usual way. You will have to manually pull the pedal back up becasue the helper spring will tend to stop the pedal from returning until there is sufficient fluid in the system. The idea here is to just get some fluid in the slave to work with.
Step 2. With the bleeder closed and pedal high and with the reservoir cap off use a pointed nose pliers to push the Slave cylinder rod in an inch or so. This will push fluid / air mix back up into the lines then into the MC reservoir where the air will return to the atmosphere. When the rod springs back to the rest position it will draw in fluid from the reservoir. Let it sit for 30 seconds, tap the lines and repeat step 2. This works quickly becasue the Porsche 928 has a rather large 22mm slave cylinder bore. I've done it with cars that have the more typical 19mm slave bore and it works just the same but takes and extra cycle or two. If you have a QUIET work area you will hear the fluid moving through the line as you exercise the slave cylinder rod and it will change tone once all the air has escaped. If you dont have any travel left in the slave you can remove it from bell housing, let the rod extend and then cycle it.
Technically speaking you can use this procedure on a completely empty system and get a hard pedal while never opening the bleeder so long as you fill the slave with some fluid to start with. If the slave already has some fluid in it the same results can be achieved by just cracking the line and letting it gravity bleed then on to step 2 by exercising the slave rod.
If you follow this procedure you can go from completely empty system to firm pedal just a few minutes.
Step 1. Gravity bleed clutch by filling reservoir and opening the line or bleeder. Pumping pedal by hand and open the bleeder in the usual way. You will have to manually pull the pedal back up becasue the helper spring will tend to stop the pedal from returning until there is sufficient fluid in the system. The idea here is to just get some fluid in the slave to work with.
Step 2. With the bleeder closed and pedal high and with the reservoir cap off use a pointed nose pliers to push the Slave cylinder rod in an inch or so. This will push fluid / air mix back up into the lines then into the MC reservoir where the air will return to the atmosphere. When the rod springs back to the rest position it will draw in fluid from the reservoir. Let it sit for 30 seconds, tap the lines and repeat step 2. This works quickly becasue the Porsche 928 has a rather large 22mm slave cylinder bore. I've done it with cars that have the more typical 19mm slave bore and it works just the same but takes and extra cycle or two. If you have a QUIET work area you will hear the fluid moving through the line as you exercise the slave cylinder rod and it will change tone once all the air has escaped. If you dont have any travel left in the slave you can remove it from bell housing, let the rod extend and then cycle it.
Technically speaking you can use this procedure on a completely empty system and get a hard pedal while never opening the bleeder so long as you fill the slave with some fluid to start with. If the slave already has some fluid in it the same results can be achieved by just cracking the line and letting it gravity bleed then on to step 2 by exercising the slave rod.
If you follow this procedure you can go from completely empty system to firm pedal just a few minutes.
Last edited by icsamerica; 05-06-2023 at 10:32 PM.
#5
Note if you have the hard line and flex line then follow the suggestion from ICSamerica
otherwise here is my suggestion that you replace the hard line and flex hose with long flex hose then bleeding takes about 3 minutes and you won’t use more than a few drops to get a solid pedal
So after the new hose is installed
open the slave bleeder till fluid drips out
then close.
remove the slave from the mount pad hold the bleeder up,
open it till you have no bubbles
a few drips is all you need
then lower the slave so the inlet port is higher than the pushrod
then push the rod slowly into the slave and hold it for 30 seconds
then let the pushrod return
repeat this push and hold sequence 3 times then install the slave
open the bleeder once more to verify no bubbles
then check the pedal
you should have a perfect pedal
Note make sure to modify the New MC piston shorten it 75 mm trim off the tip then slot it .
trim off 2 curls of the spring so it won’t go into coil bind. This will give you maximum travel to release the clutch
Note also replace the release arm bushing
,
otherwise here is my suggestion that you replace the hard line and flex hose with long flex hose then bleeding takes about 3 minutes and you won’t use more than a few drops to get a solid pedal
So after the new hose is installed
open the slave bleeder till fluid drips out
then close.
remove the slave from the mount pad hold the bleeder up,
open it till you have no bubbles
a few drips is all you need
then lower the slave so the inlet port is higher than the pushrod
then push the rod slowly into the slave and hold it for 30 seconds
then let the pushrod return
repeat this push and hold sequence 3 times then install the slave
open the bleeder once more to verify no bubbles
then check the pedal
you should have a perfect pedal
Note make sure to modify the New MC piston shorten it 75 mm trim off the tip then slot it .
trim off 2 curls of the spring so it won’t go into coil bind. This will give you maximum travel to release the clutch
Note also replace the release arm bushing
,