Vilhuer

As recent GT and GTS discussions regarding how many where made brought up more questions than answers desided to dig in deeper. Found two books and two web sites with world wide production numbers. None of them agree how many 928's were made. On most of the years there's not even agreement within that single year. On top of it, each sources yearly totals do not match their given total. Some of the discrepancies can be my typing mistakes but certainly not all of them.

K.L in table is data from Karl Ludvigsen's 'Excellence was Expected'. He gives numbers for calendar years. His yearly totals are from book, not counted. On most cases they seem to correspond with model specific numbers. Counted total is derived from yearly total.

J.A is produktionszahlen figures from Jörg Austen's 'Porsche 928 - Die technische Dokumentation des Transaxle-Achtzylinders'. His figures are for model year so they're not from same period as Ludvigsen's. Start month in VIN column is also from Austen. He doesn't give it for '85, '94 and '95 models. Up to '88 numbers are for each model counted from ROW, USA+CAN and JPN numbers. From '89 on he gives only totals for all models. For '89 he gives exact same numbers as for '88 so 3618 is derived from VIN's instead. Austen's VIN tables could give one more set of data but I believe correct numbers are hard to get from them as prototypes and special cars should be also counted in and it's impossible to know how many of them were made each year. in other words, how many of 0001-0060 VIN's were used each year.

928 GT is from 928 Specilists http://www.928gt.com/928specs/928specs.htm Worldwide Sales column. Odly some years match Austen numbers but others are totally different. Total sum is much smaller than Ludvigsen and Austen. This is due mostly by 928SP's small '78 number.

928 GTS is from http://www.928gts.net. They are from SportWagen N°36 according to the site. Yearly numbers seem mostly, but not totally, match Ludvigsen. Given sums for each model do not match counted sums.
Clearly S4's are messed up from S numbers. Counted total in below table is derived from model specific totals.

Now that didn't help at all. Only made things worse. Any other sources for this data? Ideas who is correct? Personally I favor Ludvigsen. If only he had given how many Club Sports were made and what those 15 1992 made non GTS cars were, S4, GT or mixture of both.

Erkka

1992 928 GTS 5-speed one of 1389 '92's, or perhaps 955, no make it 1132
Oak Green Metallic 22L
Classic Gray MX

ErnestSw

Nice work, but I don't understand the last two columns. Please clarify.

martin D

Erkka

I thought the CS total was 17, 15 '88's & 2 '89's

Dennis Wilson

Vilhuer,

The 928 GT figures match those published in the July 1997 issue of Panorama. Since this magazine is published by the PCA, it should be quasi official BUT considering my 78 euro has a serial number of 2149, it is either incorrect or they skipped a lot of serial numbers.

Good luck in sorting this one out.

Dennis

Garth S

Vilhuer,
as in Dennis' case, my '88 'ZZZ' serial # is 9598, wheras total production was < 4500.

Vilhuer

> Nice work, but I don't understand the last two columns. Please clarify.

Quess you mean numbers under 928 GT and 928 GTS headings. Numbers below 928 GT are from 928gt.com website. Hard to say for sure if they are based on calendar or model year but more likely model as some are same as Austen's. Numbers below 928 GTS are from 928gts.net website. They're clearly calendar.


> I thought the CS total was 17, 15 '88's & 2 '89's

Total number is at least 20 if you believe 928cs's website http://mapage.noos.fr/928cs/recensement.htm and count all prototypes except GTE. I don't have any reason not to believe it. I only added numbers from those four sources and didn't even try to make one complete accurate list. Maybe it would be possible to get fifth approximation of total production from Austen's VIN lists. For Club Sports he lists 10 + 2 USA for '88 J-models. For '89 K-model he only gives VIN ranges 40001-41584 for ROW S4/CS, 41585-42488 for ROW S4/GT and 60001-61250 for USA/CAN S4. It was already proven in other thread that there's '89 GT's with smaller number than 41585. This makes all Austen numbers questionable. Only way is to find out individual cars unless Porsche desides to open it's records.


> The 928 GT figures match those published in the July 1997 issue of
> Panorama. Since this magazine is published by the PCA, it should be
> quasi official BUT considering my 78 euro has a serial number of 2149, it
> is either incorrect or they skipped a lot of serial numbers.

175 + 1070 for 03/77-12/78 is way too small I think. If that would be correct there would be only about 700-900 first model year cars as more than 1/3 of 1070 would be '79 models made between 08/78-12/78. Based on how many '78's there are for sale I'd say it's more like 3830 Austen gives or even 1290 + (2/3 *4927) = about 4500 based on Ludvigsen numbers.


> as in Dennis' case, my '88 'ZZZ' serial # is 9598, wheras total production
> was < 4500.

This is easy to explain if you believe Austen numbers. There were 5 different sequences for '88 J-models.

40001-42287 for ROW S4
45001-45070 for ROW Club Sport
49501-49827 for Coupe Japan
60001-61852 for Coupe USA/CAN
65001-65062 for Club Sport USA/CAN

So yours would be 38th '88 S4 made for Japanise market if 49501-49560 were reserved for prototypes. Think Japanise models were made with US type emission gear in euro type body and metric instruments.

Erkka

1992 928 GTS 5-speed one confused owner
Oak Green Metallic 22L
Classic Gray MX

Garth S

Errka,
Thanks for the insight and data. I had assumed there may be a numerical series reserved for differing markets; however, had no idea what they may be, nor any idea of the 60 numbers set aside for prototypes. In my case, that makes it the 38th of 267 for MY '88: It gives a much better idea of the objective, which was determining the build date. - likely late '87

Cameron

Looks like the '91 GT is the 'rarest' of the GT's. Of course this assumes that the 6 that are listed as '92s are actually '91s. Check out the new sig.

.....Cameron
'91 Euro GT - Rarest and most desirable of the 928 GT Model Years

Now where did I put that popcorn?

Vilhuer

If I understand small printing at every VIN table Austen gives, he says only euros had 0001-0050 reserved for prototypes and 0051-0060 for special cars. However there's contradicting evidence in his production number tables. For example to '88 J-cars he gives 2287 + 2059 USA/JPN as total S4 production. This eguals to 4346 in large table in previous post. Counting from 49501-49827, 60001-61852 and 65001-65062 sets one gets 327 + 1852 + 62 = 2240 USA/JPN cars. This is 179 more than in his production count. So not even these numbers ad up even if 3x60 is subtracted. But it's only 1 of and not 179. Similar results apply for other years. This leads me to believe 0061 was first production model in each series, not just for euros.

Erkka

1992 928 GTS 5-speed
Oak Green Metallic 22L
Classic Gray MX

martin D

Erkka

I've PM ed you with a contact email address for CS/SE info, Re. the '87 CS 'prototypes' (there were 4 ), just because they are similar & precede the CS/SE's they are quoted as 'prototypes'. They were personal gifts from Porsche to the 4 factory Racecar drivers (3 later sold them on) & were not used for testing, so prototypes ?

Cameron

Martin,

Does Derek Bell still have/drive his?

.....Cameron
'91 Euro GT

Vilhuer

Thanks for the tip.

Here's link to story on Derek Bell's car. http://www.928.org.uk/92887csgpw.html

Who were other three drivers and where are those cars now? Bet I'm not only one wondering this and same time some white 928's owner is cursing first owner who didn't even order electric seats.

Erkka

1992 928 GTS 5-speed unknown first owner
Oak Green Metallic 22L
Classic Gray MX

martin D

I belive he does, hopefully it will be at our 120 car 928 ) gathering in the UK in 3 weeks time (Derek only lives 50/60 miles away from it)

epbrown01

Is Keith Seume attending? He just got a '79 in Guards Red, iirc.

Emanuel

928cs

Regarding the "928GTS" production numbers, from SportWagen #36, I'm almost sure this are "calendar" years (from 1st of January to 31st of December) instead of Model Years (from 1st of August to 31st of July).
For your information, SportWagen is a French magazine.

Regarding the CS& SE numbers, to my knowledge they are:
- 1987 MY (H)
1 CS red prototype: tested into a Auto Motor und Sport article from November 1986.
4 CS white prototypes, one of which is Derek Bell's car.
- 1988 MY (J)
1 GTE, unique prototype: now in South Africa.
10 CS Euro: Source Porsche AG.
42 SE (UK only): Source Porsche UK.
2 US CS? I would like to know more about them...
- 1989 MY (K)
7 CS Euro: Source Porsche AG.

Regards,
Samuel