My engine failure on the S4 with VW hydraulic valve lifters
I was just making general sugestion.
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kai258 (01-02-2022)
01-02-2022, 10:48 AM
#17
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VW Lightweight Lifter - Was 050 109 309 H 050 109 309 J
VW Lightweight Lifter - Black Nitrited 038 109 309C
To be clear 038 109 309C is the lifter that you have to remove the spring.
VW Lightweight Lifter - Black Nitrited 038 109 309C
To be clear 038 109 309C is the lifter that you have to remove the spring.
__________________
Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission?
George Layton March 2014
928 Owners are ".....a secret sect of quietly assured Porsche pragmatists who in near anonymity appreciate the prodigious, easy going prowess of the 928."
Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission?
George Layton March 2014928 Owners are ".....a secret sect of quietly assured Porsche pragmatists who in near anonymity appreciate the prodigious, easy going prowess of the 928."
01-02-2022, 11:05 AM
#18
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The lifter 038 109 309C is not only available from INA. A German wholesaler has lifters from, among others, the following suppliers:
Fai, Ridex, Automega, Vika, Topran, Motive, Maxgear, INA, Kolbenschmidt, Febe, Stark, Swag, BTS, BGA, ET, AE, Ajusa.
I can not say which companies actually manufacture their own lifters.
Åke
Fai, Ridex, Automega, Vika, Topran, Motive, Maxgear, INA, Kolbenschmidt, Febe, Stark, Swag, BTS, BGA, ET, AE, Ajusa.
I can not say which companies actually manufacture their own lifters.
Åke
01-02-2022, 02:53 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
If a set of the black nitride VW lightweight lifters were installed and the springs were not removed what would be the immediate symptoms to indicate the step was missed once the vehicle was restarted?
01-02-2022, 02:56 PM
#20
01-02-2022, 03:04 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
From post 17 above by Roger:
"VW Lightweight Lifter - Black Nitrited 038 109 309C
To be clear 038 109 309C is the lifter that you have to remove the spring."
How can you tell if the spring wasn't removed when installed...will they be noisy or just grind the valvetrain down, etc.?
"VW Lightweight Lifter - Black Nitrited 038 109 309C
To be clear 038 109 309C is the lifter that you have to remove the spring."
How can you tell if the spring wasn't removed when installed...will they be noisy or just grind the valvetrain down, etc.?
01-02-2022, 10:30 PM
#22
Former Vendor
Hi.
As I said, the ticker had the engine from the beginning when I bought it. And cylinder 7 had no compression at first and then it did. The damage was then also caused to precisely this cylinder 7. Maybe the hydraulic valve lifters finished it off, I don't know. It is clear that something was already wrong. In retrospect, of course, it was a big mistake to simply install the engine after it had been standing for 10 years. I should have at least removed the cylinder heads. Probably this could have been prevented. The almost complete valve seat was in the intake manifold.
I also think that a broken valve spring is very likely, that's schocki's assumption. That is why the ticker could have come from what you hear in the video. In any case, as you correctly say, I would never just install a used engine again, or buy it without knowing what's going on with it. That's why I'm building the new engine properly now, it has a good basis.
Incidentally, the hydraulic valve on cylinder 7 has no visible damage.
And of course I no longer trust the VW hydraulic lifters, even if they were perhaps not the reason for the damage. But I now know that hydraulic lifters from other engines cannot simply be installed, even if they fit externally.
As I said, the ticker had the engine from the beginning when I bought it. And cylinder 7 had no compression at first and then it did. The damage was then also caused to precisely this cylinder 7. Maybe the hydraulic valve lifters finished it off, I don't know. It is clear that something was already wrong. In retrospect, of course, it was a big mistake to simply install the engine after it had been standing for 10 years. I should have at least removed the cylinder heads. Probably this could have been prevented. The almost complete valve seat was in the intake manifold.
I also think that a broken valve spring is very likely, that's schocki's assumption. That is why the ticker could have come from what you hear in the video. In any case, as you correctly say, I would never just install a used engine again, or buy it without knowing what's going on with it. That's why I'm building the new engine properly now, it has a good basis.
Incidentally, the hydraulic valve on cylinder 7 has no visible damage.
And of course I no longer trust the VW hydraulic lifters, even if they were perhaps not the reason for the damage. But I now know that hydraulic lifters from other engines cannot simply be installed, even if they fit externally.
At any rate, you should have the cylinder head to inspect the springs, keepers, and retainers.
The lightweight lifter, in your picture above, does have some extraordinary wear, where the lifter touches the valve stem.
It is uncommon to see this much wear, on that face, even with lifters that have 250,000 miles.
That lifter appears that it has been "slapping" the valve stem....or it did not get lubricated on that face, when installed.
01-02-2022, 10:53 PM
#23
Former Vendor
That's one idea that will not fail you!
My local wholesaler sells the INA 050 109 309J lifter, to me, for under $7.00
They have to make a profit. The part needs to be shipped...from wherever it is made....several times, through several hands.
There's import duty to be paid.
The distributor that sells them to my wholesaler needs to make a profit.
And INA needs to make a profit.
Do some basic backwards math and you will realize that the lifter costs way under $1.00 each, for INA to make.
Like I said, above, I do not actively use this lifter.
The quality was terrible, when I was using them and having them DLC coated.
The DLC people rejected a full 20% of them...and that was after I rejected 20% of them.
There's an amazing truth, which a lot of people completely miss:
"You usually get what you pay for".
My local wholesaler sells the INA 050 109 309J lifter, to me, for under $7.00
They have to make a profit. The part needs to be shipped...from wherever it is made....several times, through several hands.
There's import duty to be paid.
The distributor that sells them to my wholesaler needs to make a profit.
And INA needs to make a profit.
Do some basic backwards math and you will realize that the lifter costs way under $1.00 each, for INA to make.
Like I said, above, I do not actively use this lifter.
The quality was terrible, when I was using them and having them DLC coated.
The DLC people rejected a full 20% of them...and that was after I rejected 20% of them.
There's an amazing truth, which a lot of people completely miss:
"You usually get what you pay for".
01-03-2022, 04:13 AM
#24
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Did he not have low compression in one cylinder? A bent valve that does not close properly and causes such a large "valve lash" that the hydro lifter cannot compensate for it = ticking noise?
The hammer mill causes fatigue of the material making the valve to break.
Åke
The hammer mill causes fatigue of the material making the valve to break.
Åke
01-03-2022, 05:51 AM
#25
Did he not have low compression in one cylinder? A bent valve that does not close properly and causes such a large "valve lash" that the hydro lifter cannot compensate for it = ticking noise?
The hammer mill causes fatigue of the material making the valve to break.
Åke
The hammer mill causes fatigue of the material making the valve to break.
Åke
Yes, exactly. Cylinder 7 initially had no compression. After a few 100 kilometers, cylinder 7 also had compression. but the noise was there all the time. And the damage with the hole in the piston and the broken valve was then exactly on cylinder 7.