Dry Ice Blasting- Cosmoline snuff film
01-09-2021, 11:28 AM
#16
I'm a big fan of this process, too.
For the Do It Yourselfer on a budget: I purchased a Hot Steam boiler that connects and works with the pressure washer I already have from Northern Tool https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...7863_200377863
Of course you can also purchase the complete packaged units too.
My results were almost as good as the dry ice video EXCEPT:
The steam makes it very difficult to see what you're doing
The mess falls onto you
You have to be VERY careful around electrical connections - I didn't damage anything but it could easily ruin delicate items.
The difference in steam versus cold pressure washing is night and day, plus you have a tool that's useful for other projects.
Of course if I had the money I'd buy my own Dry Ice system too but I didn't win the Lottery last night.
For the Do It Yourselfer on a budget: I purchased a Hot Steam boiler that connects and works with the pressure washer I already have from Northern Tool https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...7863_200377863
Of course you can also purchase the complete packaged units too.
My results were almost as good as the dry ice video EXCEPT:
The steam makes it very difficult to see what you're doing
The mess falls onto you
You have to be VERY careful around electrical connections - I didn't damage anything but it could easily ruin delicate items.
The difference in steam versus cold pressure washing is night and day, plus you have a tool that's useful for other projects.
Of course if I had the money I'd buy my own Dry Ice system too but I didn't win the Lottery last night.
01-09-2021, 11:43 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
Are you going to spray something on the aluminum and stuff to keep it from oxidizing? I'm also thinking about the sacrificial plating on the fasteners and if it will now be "sacrificed" because it's exposed. Not asking to be critical - I'm cleaning up the rear end for the tranny reinstall and I'd like to keep it "fresh" looking.
Last edited by NoVector; 01-09-2021 at 11:44 AM.
01-09-2021, 01:14 PM
#19
Chronic Tool Dropper
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
The "cleaning" done this way is a matter of thermal shock as much as abrasion. The dry ice crystals are boiling in the heat of the compressed air, so it's a drag race to get them to hit the target pieces before they flash completely. Else it's just a cold-air blast.
The neighbor's SIL was fresh from the marketing indoctrination a year ago, and was pretty pumped up. I asked the question about buying dry ice chips vs making his own from CO2 tanks on site. The cost of the dry ice generator was pretty steep, cost of the dry ice chips is low in most metro areas, making the decision pretty easy. I see the systems used in industrial cleaning, specifically to remove ash and ammonia salts from finned heat exchanger tubes in power plant steam generators, and recommended that he coordinate with local industries in his area for some reliable work. Turns out his machine isn't close to big enough for that duty, as he'd need capacity for several guns and operators, hoses long enough to work 150' away and up inside the units, etc. Plus the ability to make dry ice on site to keep up. The dry ice blast is by far the best way to do the cleaning by the way. The fins on the tubes get clogged with a combination of exhaust soot from the gas turbine engines, and a salt that forms from overdosing ammonia used to catalyze NOx. Cleaning with dry ice this way avoids damaging the delicate fins, leaves no residue except the material that's removed. As the video shows, the clean-up afterwards is relatively easy, especially compared with any abrasive blasting.
For most car stuff, a system with water instead of the dry ice give similar results, plus does a better job at dust management. It will remove paint if you get too aggressive, although in truth you can remove paint with the dry ice method too if you want to. Time and the amount of water or dry ice you feed determines how much you remove. Steam is also very good, although it's a little tough on electrical bits and ball bearings (read: alternators and electrical connectors.)
Member @Don Buswell in Texas has a setup that uses ground plastic as a blast media to blast clean without risk of damaging the underlying metal. I suspect he can take paint off pretty easily if he wants to, but if you have parts that need to be cleaned without any risk to underlying metal it's worthwhile contacting him for help/advice. He's not a RL vendor so can't promote his business here, but I can give a shout-out to suggest you contact him.
There's also soda blasting, something that works extremely well for engine parts for carbon removal. You can do this in a conventional blast cabinet if you have one, and the media is not at all expensive.
Greg, your 10HP air compressor costs you about 2 dollars an hour to run at full 100% loading, without consideration for the drier, and assuming you are paying max hot-day rate for SCE power. The blasting doesn't need dry air, so you would tap off the receiver directly and not worry about cycling the air drier. It would demand a large hose from the air receiver directly to the mixer.
All that said, it's likely cheaper to make a deal with a local service to do the work for you since it's hardly a full-time task. Your shop is way busy and crowded already.
The neighbor's SIL was fresh from the marketing indoctrination a year ago, and was pretty pumped up. I asked the question about buying dry ice chips vs making his own from CO2 tanks on site. The cost of the dry ice generator was pretty steep, cost of the dry ice chips is low in most metro areas, making the decision pretty easy. I see the systems used in industrial cleaning, specifically to remove ash and ammonia salts from finned heat exchanger tubes in power plant steam generators, and recommended that he coordinate with local industries in his area for some reliable work. Turns out his machine isn't close to big enough for that duty, as he'd need capacity for several guns and operators, hoses long enough to work 150' away and up inside the units, etc. Plus the ability to make dry ice on site to keep up. The dry ice blast is by far the best way to do the cleaning by the way. The fins on the tubes get clogged with a combination of exhaust soot from the gas turbine engines, and a salt that forms from overdosing ammonia used to catalyze NOx. Cleaning with dry ice this way avoids damaging the delicate fins, leaves no residue except the material that's removed. As the video shows, the clean-up afterwards is relatively easy, especially compared with any abrasive blasting.
For most car stuff, a system with water instead of the dry ice give similar results, plus does a better job at dust management. It will remove paint if you get too aggressive, although in truth you can remove paint with the dry ice method too if you want to. Time and the amount of water or dry ice you feed determines how much you remove. Steam is also very good, although it's a little tough on electrical bits and ball bearings (read: alternators and electrical connectors.)
Member @Don Buswell in Texas has a setup that uses ground plastic as a blast media to blast clean without risk of damaging the underlying metal. I suspect he can take paint off pretty easily if he wants to, but if you have parts that need to be cleaned without any risk to underlying metal it's worthwhile contacting him for help/advice. He's not a RL vendor so can't promote his business here, but I can give a shout-out to suggest you contact him.
There's also soda blasting, something that works extremely well for engine parts for carbon removal. You can do this in a conventional blast cabinet if you have one, and the media is not at all expensive.
Greg, your 10HP air compressor costs you about 2 dollars an hour to run at full 100% loading, without consideration for the drier, and assuming you are paying max hot-day rate for SCE power. The blasting doesn't need dry air, so you would tap off the receiver directly and not worry about cycling the air drier. It would demand a large hose from the air receiver directly to the mixer.
All that said, it's likely cheaper to make a deal with a local service to do the work for you since it's hardly a full-time task. Your shop is way busy and crowded already.
01-09-2021, 04:04 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
The shop I worked for in Hayward, Ca purchased a Dry Ice blaster a few years ago. That machine used dry ice blocks - one phone call got a delivery.
Original idea was to use for engine/transmission parts for rebuilds.
Quickly discovered that it was ideal for all restoration projects. Adjustable pressure so it would remove ancient grime and not hurt parts or original surface.
For "difficult cleaning" increase pressure and increase amount of ice. If blasting something ferrous, found that a spray of WD-40 prevents corrosion.
Nicest thing about this - no residue, no "material impregnation" as one would get with sand, media, solvent, etc.
The shop began by renting a machine, quickly found that they used it so much, it was cheaper to purchase.
Original idea was to use for engine/transmission parts for rebuilds.
Quickly discovered that it was ideal for all restoration projects. Adjustable pressure so it would remove ancient grime and not hurt parts or original surface.
For "difficult cleaning" increase pressure and increase amount of ice. If blasting something ferrous, found that a spray of WD-40 prevents corrosion.
Nicest thing about this - no residue, no "material impregnation" as one would get with sand, media, solvent, etc.
The shop began by renting a machine, quickly found that they used it so much, it was cheaper to purchase.
Last edited by GUMBALL; 01-09-2021 at 05:39 PM.
01-09-2021, 06:41 PM
#21
Former Sponsor
The "cleaning" done this way is a matter of thermal shock as much as abrasion. The dry ice crystals are boiling in the heat of the compressed air, so it's a drag race to get them to hit the target pieces before they flash completely. Else it's just a cold-air blast.
The neighbor's SIL was fresh from the marketing indoctrination a year ago, and was pretty pumped up. I asked the question about buying dry ice chips vs making his own from CO2 tanks on site. The cost of the dry ice generator was pretty steep, cost of the dry ice chips is low in most metro areas, making the decision pretty easy. I see the systems used in industrial cleaning, specifically to remove ash and ammonia salts from finned heat exchanger tubes in power plant steam generators, and recommended that he coordinate with local industries in his area for some reliable work. Turns out his machine isn't close to big enough for that duty, as he'd need capacity for several guns and operators, hoses long enough to work 150' away and up inside the units, etc. Plus the ability to make dry ice on site to keep up. The dry ice blast is by far the best way to do the cleaning by the way. The fins on the tubes get clogged with a combination of exhaust soot from the gas turbine engines, and a salt that forms from overdosing ammonia used to catalyze NOx. Cleaning with dry ice this way avoids damaging the delicate fins, leaves no residue except the material that's removed. As the video shows, the clean-up afterwards is relatively easy, especially compared with any abrasive blasting.
For most car stuff, a system with water instead of the dry ice give similar results, plus does a better job at dust management. It will remove paint if you get too aggressive, although in truth you can remove paint with the dry ice method too if you want to. Time and the amount of water or dry ice you feed determines how much you remove. Steam is also very good, although it's a little tough on electrical bits and ball bearings (read: alternators and electrical connectors.)
Member @Don Buswell in Texas has a setup that uses ground plastic as a blast media to blast clean without risk of damaging the underlying metal. I suspect he can take paint off pretty easily if he wants to, but if you have parts that need to be cleaned without any risk to underlying metal it's worthwhile contacting him for help/advice. He's not a RL vendor so can't promote his business here, but I can give a shout-out to suggest you contact him.
There's also soda blasting, something that works extremely well for engine parts for carbon removal. You can do this in a conventional blast cabinet if you have one, and the media is not at all expensive.
Greg, your 10HP air compressor costs you about 2 dollars an hour to run at full 100% loading, without consideration for the drier, and assuming you are paying max hot-day rate for SCE power. The blasting doesn't need dry air, so you would tap off the receiver directly and not worry about cycling the air drier. It would demand a large hose from the air receiver directly to the mixer.
All that said, it's likely cheaper to make a deal with a local service to do the work for you since it's hardly a full-time task. Your shop is way busy and crowded already.
The neighbor's SIL was fresh from the marketing indoctrination a year ago, and was pretty pumped up. I asked the question about buying dry ice chips vs making his own from CO2 tanks on site. The cost of the dry ice generator was pretty steep, cost of the dry ice chips is low in most metro areas, making the decision pretty easy. I see the systems used in industrial cleaning, specifically to remove ash and ammonia salts from finned heat exchanger tubes in power plant steam generators, and recommended that he coordinate with local industries in his area for some reliable work. Turns out his machine isn't close to big enough for that duty, as he'd need capacity for several guns and operators, hoses long enough to work 150' away and up inside the units, etc. Plus the ability to make dry ice on site to keep up. The dry ice blast is by far the best way to do the cleaning by the way. The fins on the tubes get clogged with a combination of exhaust soot from the gas turbine engines, and a salt that forms from overdosing ammonia used to catalyze NOx. Cleaning with dry ice this way avoids damaging the delicate fins, leaves no residue except the material that's removed. As the video shows, the clean-up afterwards is relatively easy, especially compared with any abrasive blasting.
For most car stuff, a system with water instead of the dry ice give similar results, plus does a better job at dust management. It will remove paint if you get too aggressive, although in truth you can remove paint with the dry ice method too if you want to. Time and the amount of water or dry ice you feed determines how much you remove. Steam is also very good, although it's a little tough on electrical bits and ball bearings (read: alternators and electrical connectors.)
Member @Don Buswell in Texas has a setup that uses ground plastic as a blast media to blast clean without risk of damaging the underlying metal. I suspect he can take paint off pretty easily if he wants to, but if you have parts that need to be cleaned without any risk to underlying metal it's worthwhile contacting him for help/advice. He's not a RL vendor so can't promote his business here, but I can give a shout-out to suggest you contact him.
There's also soda blasting, something that works extremely well for engine parts for carbon removal. You can do this in a conventional blast cabinet if you have one, and the media is not at all expensive.
Greg, your 10HP air compressor costs you about 2 dollars an hour to run at full 100% loading, without consideration for the drier, and assuming you are paying max hot-day rate for SCE power. The blasting doesn't need dry air, so you would tap off the receiver directly and not worry about cycling the air drier. It would demand a large hose from the air receiver directly to the mixer.
All that said, it's likely cheaper to make a deal with a local service to do the work for you since it's hardly a full-time task. Your shop is way busy and crowded already.
We spend a considerable part of a week cleaning pieces and cleaning up the mess afterwards. And if we have to soda blast anything, the mess is almost intolerable.....very difficult to contain that dust.
The other issue, in Kalifornia, is that we are not allowed to have any cleaning products that actually work, any longer. Just as an example (which you have lots of experience at) cleaning up the front of an engine to do a timing belt (when it is apart) takes us hours and hours. Yes, the oil and grease is still going to be present on the ground when you are done, but we already use big pieces of cardboard to contain that mess.
01-09-2021, 10:53 PM
#22
Former Sponsor
I really need to see this process in real time, before getting too excited.
Is that oil pan a 5 minute job or a 45 minute job?
9.5 hours to do the underside isn't blazing fast....and could be a bit tedious.
And probably not something you'd want to do, in the summertime, in Southern California.
However, I'm not thinking about the process to do the entire underside of someone's car....just as a process to do more difficult pieces to clean.....when the pieces are off.
By the time we get a rear cross member clean, get all the cosmoline off, and get into all the nicks and corners, several hours have gone by....
Just thinking out loud.
Is that oil pan a 5 minute job or a 45 minute job?
9.5 hours to do the underside isn't blazing fast....and could be a bit tedious.
And probably not something you'd want to do, in the summertime, in Southern California.
However, I'm not thinking about the process to do the entire underside of someone's car....just as a process to do more difficult pieces to clean.....when the pieces are off.
By the time we get a rear cross member clean, get all the cosmoline off, and get into all the nicks and corners, several hours have gone by....
Just thinking out loud.
01-09-2021, 11:07 PM
#23
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Gone. On the Open Road
Posts: 16,484
Received 1,634 Likes
on
1,065 Posts
I looked into DIB a couple of years ago and decided:
a) it's really most useful and efficient when you've got the pieces in your hand
b) I wouldn't trust a 'service' to do a "whole" 928 I have to warranty. Too worried about thermal shock and physical damage to wiring harnesses that are already close to succumbing.
c) Unless the bits are in your hand, you can't really get to all the nooks and crannies.
d) I don't have the scale to prioritize the purchase (Greg, you do) but that I might be able to convince one of my services providers to get a DIB system for me...
01-09-2021, 11:55 PM
#24
A local shop near me was doing it but eventually stopped due to the high cost of the equipment and relatively few people willing to pay for a full day's labour. They were charging a little over 1k cdn for an undercarriage detail, when I called they said they take it down to the green primer which kinda scared me so I never had it done.
Personally, I clean undercarriages with a steamer, any model that has the detergent injection will work wonders. The only downside is you get absolutely covered in crap while doing it. A brand new machine can be had for 5k.
https://dupray.ca/products/carmen-su...xoC9-YQAvD_BwE
The 220v is the best version and it comes with an adapter so you can run it off of two independent 110v circuits.
Personally, I clean undercarriages with a steamer, any model that has the detergent injection will work wonders. The only downside is you get absolutely covered in crap while doing it. A brand new machine can be had for 5k.
https://dupray.ca/products/carmen-su...xoC9-YQAvD_BwE
The 220v is the best version and it comes with an adapter so you can run it off of two independent 110v circuits.
The following users liked this post:
voskian (01-10-2021)
01-13-2021, 04:46 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
01-14-2021, 06:14 PM
#26
Race Director
WOW.......incredible difference. I am GLAD I am out of concours cause I could see myself buying one or spending alot to have it done
I do think this would be a great tool for Doc...... I recall I almost bought a small steam cleaner when I saw how much better it made things under the hood look at the peak of concour with sharky....I had to do it the old fashioned way....with elbow grease!
I do think this would be a great tool for Doc...... I recall I almost bought a small steam cleaner when I saw how much better it made things under the hood look at the peak of concour with sharky....I had to do it the old fashioned way....with elbow grease!
01-17-2021, 02:39 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
01-17-2021, 03:31 PM
#29
Chronic Tool Dropper
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
I've gotten into the habit of buying the 'deodorized' mineral spirits for hobby degreasing projects, but those are very limited-scope uses these days. Virtually everything gets water and detergent cleaned these days, with solvents used only when the first methods fail. My solvent parts washer these days is a plastic coffee container. Put stuff in there, shake well, remove, reseal the lid.
California has some seriously strict rules about using anything that contains or releases VOC's, and that obviously includes solvent-based cleaning products. Where we used to use vapor degreases with heated solvents, the current rules cave caused parts washers to be closer to large dishwashers, with high-pressure hot water and detergents doing the work. At least where we lived in the Los Angeles area, the effects were pretty dramatic. Our last home had a nice view south across the L.A. basin. Brown photochemical smog from volatile hydrocarbons filtered that view. Air quality was pretty graphicly illustrated daily. For folks who want to inhale there, it's perhaps more important than to those who want to clean parts. I think even the manual parts washer systems are using a water-based cleaner rather than solvents in any commercial space.
There are plenty of other places in the country that could use similar clean-air efforts. The Houston/Pasadena/Texas City area springs to mind. Air you can see and taste.
The following users liked this post:
SwayBar (01-23-2021)
01-21-2021, 05:10 PM
#30
Drifting
That looks superb, I'd love to get my car cleaned like that
However, the timing of the video is really weird considering the shortage of dry ice that is needed for vaccine distribution
However, the timing of the video is really weird considering the shortage of dry ice that is needed for vaccine distribution