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What I said at the beginning of my post is that the Pasha pattern is screwed up. If you are stuck on Pasha you are already stuck on significant imperfection. So live with it.
I am recovering my 1979 seats as the car is undergoing body and paint. I have many sets of seats to chose from and decided to recover the "best" set. A 1979 set of Pasha seats that I had picked up a few years back. My covers from Classic 9 were done in Black/ Beige Pascha with grainy vinyl.
The 78 seatback is on the right and the 79 seatback is on the left. The 78 is slightly different in that it has no "batting" but the big difference is that its actually about an inch shorter. The driver side mate to this is the same, 1 inch shorter than the 79 . The difference appears to be the in the headrest frame although I plan to add some images showing the differences. The original covers also show a one inch difference when measured down the back. Classic 9's cover matches the 79 size perfectly.
I know many 78's were "handmade" to some degree and it would appear that this is just another oddity perhaps? Anyone else encounter this issue?
Stay tuned as I won't let these seats beat me!
guess I went down a rabbit hole that could be considered "off topic"
Guy have you seen exactly where in the frame the size difference is? and what section of the classic 9 backrest cover would be too "long" on the shorter seat? my 77, 78, 79 headrest foam sections seem to measure the same.
After looking at the replacement cover in question more closely I would conclude that the workmanship is not in question and that the fabric, whatever it might be, is actually centered. The problem is in the phrase "whatever it might be," since it is so far from the original pasha that it is laughable. It is clear to me that other than turning the pattern right side up in the headrest part of the seat back there is nothing that can really be done to "fix" the problem.
When I look at these pasha patterns I usually find the center of them by finding and following the two diagonal rows of blocks that run in a straight line from the corners down through the center of the pattern, assuming that the small blocks are in the center. The blocks in those two diagonal rows should all be exactly square. In the pasha pattern shown to be original in these pictures one row is dark and the other is light, which means that the center of the pattern in the small block area is at the corner of four small blocks of alternating color, as marked by the OP. However, it might very well be that the center of the pattern is a single light colored block with the diagonal rows being the same color; and that is why the original pattern has an extra row of blocks up and down on one side so that the pattern finishes with opposing big blocks at the corners, so it can alternate with the next pattern.
I don't think I have ever actually seen the original pasha pattern laid out in a sheet of fabric, notwithstanding the picture of such laid out on the hood of a 928. That too might very well be someone else's design.
In any case, if you look at the OP's seat back with the Classic 9 cover on it you will notice that the diagonal rows of blocks that seem to pass through the middle of the small block area have almost no actual squares in them but rather various non progressive rectangles. Then if you look at the various rows of blocks side to side and up and down you will see a very significant lack of progression, but rather an almost random variation in the size or width of the rows.
What I think that translates to is not a simple rework of the seat covers to try to center the pattern better, because I think that the center of whatever this pattern is is in the center of the headrest. What I think needs to happen is that Classic 9 needs to **** can whatever they are using for Pasha and find some material with the correct or even corrected pattern.
So, I take it back. Don't live with it. Send them back and require that the pasha be replaced with the correct pattern and centered without the head rest pattern being put in upside down from the rest of the pattern in the inserts.
I was a little distracted with my 82 at the moment and missed this thread's progress. Let me play catch up.....
Thanks for all the input and I appreciate all the observations and compliments. I sincerely do! I driver myself crazy with this stuff. Nice to see I am not alone.
The replacement covers have a couple of issues. This is not a slight on anyone, its just observations.
-the vinyl is much thinner than original. I believe Rod said the original was 31oz and the replacment is closer to 20 oz. This causes a couple of issues. The stressed areas are prone to split at the seams. The thread is actually stronger than the vinyl. The vinyl also shows every little issue with the padding. Its very unforgiving. It likely should be backed with foam to help ease installation. I would NOT choose this material again opting for leather/ pasha combo.
- the Pascha pattern differs from original as pointed out. Not sure there is much that can be done about this.
- original seat cover bottoms are left and right exclusive. The replacements are identical. This causes an issue when mounting at the rear bottom as the foam is wider on one side than the other.
- the form fit under the headrest is crucial and the backing reinforcement is too small and place crooked on the replacement covers. The thinner vinyl plays a role here as well as a hog rug simply can hold the weak vinyl in the corners.
-I believe the backrests are also unique left to right as the angles on the rear skirt are cut differently on original manual seats. This causes a buckle that needs to be dealt with when installing.
- the original execution of the standing pleats is a poor design, Rod improved the design by extending the listing rod pockets in actual upholstery instead of thin cloth as in original. To pick nits, the stitching between the standing seams is a little too wide and you lose the pillow effect and the seats gain the appearance of later style with rounded edges. IMHO the seat bottoms really should have another improvement by way of a pocket to contain the foam blocks but that's just one man's opinion.
- the seat differences that started all of this appear to be an optical illusion. The headrest portion of the replacement cover is slightly longer in the front than the original this caused the angle at the top of the headrest to be thrown off a bit. The frames themselves do measure the same but the 78 does have the spikes positioned slightly differently which causes a lose fit on the backrest skirt
Rod was very helpful on the phone. I am used to differences in reproductions and most are workable. I am very ****, I recognize this issue. Even some of the example pictures on the Classic 9 website would not be acceptable for me. But again, thats not a knock on Classic 9 at all, its my cross to bear.
Not sure where I go from here. I am somewhat pleased with the fifth time i covered the seats but i don't envison they will survive any regular use. In a perfect world, I would have retained original vinyl and had covers remade with replacement fabric. Did I mention how thin this un-backed replacement vinyl is? Its so thin that two of my professional upholsters wouldn't touch it unless they disassembled and backed it first.
In case I was ambiguous, I would never buy vinyl covers again. I would use Classic9 however and will use them for the remainder of my interior
The design of the Pasha pattern devised by Dr Who is just exactly what the pattern has always needed, even from the start of its application to the Geneva 928 show car. You will notice in the picture of Ferry Porsche sitting on the hood of that red 928 with the white leather and black/white Pasha, that the pasha pattern is off center in both of the front seats, and more so in the passenger's seat. I think that is because of the pattern itself in that they were trying to get the pattern to look centered at the outside edges primarily. With the pattern as originally obtained by Porsche (because I don't think Porsche designed it themselves) the outer large blocks end up opposite each other along the outer edge of the inserts. Whoever did the pattern tried to center the pattern at the common or four opposing blocks in the small block area and then end the pattern in the same manner with the large blocks. You may need to study the pattern a bit to be able to go along with this.
However, the only way to deal with this pasha pattern is to start in the center of the small blocks and have the center of the pattern be in fact in the center of one of the blocks. That is just what Dr No has done with his algorithm. That puts the outer end of the pattern in the center of the large blocks rather than at the four corners of four large blocks, which can be accomplished only by putting an extra row of blocks on one side of the pattern, which the Porsche pasha pattern has. Putting the extra row of blocks on one side of the pattern necessitates changing the width of the block on the other side, and so forth.
This new pattern is JFB. It is just exactly what is needed with the pattern, and for more reasons than you might realize. Aside from making the progression of block size uniform, by eliminating the extra row of blocks, it puts the outer edge of the patter, at the big blocks, symmetrical so that the end of each row is the same color rather then being an opposite color. That is what causes the pattern to look lopsided, and I think is why the original pattern in the Geneva show car is off center - they trying to get it to look centered with the outer ends of each row looking the same. Too, it looks like the width and length of the pattern can be adjusted and done so to fit the pattern to the 928 pillows or any other style of seat, so that perhaps the pattern will have the center of the small block in one pillow and the center of the large block in the next, and so forth.
Now what we need is to find some source to have this new corrected pattern put into production. Just about everyone needs a new source for their Pasha. material, even if they haven't figured that out yet.
Guy, I have said it a number of times, even in this thread, I think, that THE FACTORY PASHA PATTERN IS SCREWED UP! What that means is that no one has a correct Pasha pattern to put into your seats. It is as simple as that. Until someone has developed the correct pasha pattern for use in the upholstery of our seats you are screwed. I would suggest that you abandon your hopes to have them done in pasha and utilize a different design. Since your tastes and ability are acute enough to tell the difference you really have no choice.
Ed's excellent examples of Pasha seats from his 78 are very good examples of how the Pasha pattern used by Porsche is so screwed up. Look at the progression of the change in the band width of the rows. There is no logic to it. Look at how every row ends on one side in the dark and on the other side on the light That is universal in his seats; and is most prominent and obvious at the corners. THE FACTORY PASHA IS SCREWED UP!
Guy - i honestly think yours are not that far off. I'd use them until you get a better alternative. Very few on the planet will know the difference, and it will never be obvious except to the most discerning, even if your car is sitting next to one with original pasha. Otherwise, see if you can get a refund from Classic 9, and go with leather until the correct pasha can be sourced.
12-09-2020, 10:36 PM
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