Upgardes for power for an '80 shark?
03-22-2004, 04:53 PM
#16
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I agree with Garth and BCDavis. Either buy an earlier car, restore it mechanically, and drive it/enjoy it as it was meant to be (go for the 5-sp)...OR spend more money up front and get the most car you can, it is way more expensive to try to upgrade an earlier car.
with the exception of some of the earlier 3-sp auto cars being pretty slow, any 928 in good mech. cond. is a great car, enjoy it for what it is.
when you buy a 928, you are paying for the maintenance and they throw the car in for free...
with the exception of some of the earlier 3-sp auto cars being pretty slow, any 928 in good mech. cond. is a great car, enjoy it for what it is.
when you buy a 928, you are paying for the maintenance and they throw the car in for free...
03-22-2004, 05:53 PM
#17
TRB0 GUY
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Vented nose would work, I'm working on getting a spare 944 crest panel to get a good format and cut/deburr/sand/prime my own vented nose. I'm glad a I have a paint guy from my old work who can paint it for me for the cost of paint and a 12 pack 
I'm actually not looking to buy a 928 right now. Most of this is for a friend of mine who own's a '79 Euro with 60k on the clock. I would love to own one in the future, but couldn't do that just yet. And personally, I agree with what you've said, I would look for a later shark, like an S4, if/when I decide to get one.
I'm actually not looking to buy a 928 right now. Most of this is for a friend of mine who own's a '79 Euro with 60k on the clock. I would love to own one in the future, but couldn't do that just yet. And personally, I agree with what you've said, I would look for a later shark, like an S4, if/when I decide to get one.
03-22-2004, 07:19 PM
#18
Nordschleife Master
The 928's ignition and fuel system did not change untill 1985, so no chips are possible untill after the change to the new systems. Porche changed to the digitaly controled EZK and LH-jetronic ignition and fuel systems from then up.
If you want to do the same thing as a chip on your earler car, do like the tuners in the 60s did. Make sure your car is in good condition, and then go with higher octane fuel and advance the timeing. It's not difficult, and other than the price of fuel and tools, free, unless you destory the motor.
If you want to do the same thing as a chip on your earler car, do like the tuners in the 60s did. Make sure your car is in good condition, and then go with higher octane fuel and advance the timeing. It's not difficult, and other than the price of fuel and tools, free, unless you destory the motor.
03-22-2004, 09:08 PM
#20
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I don't know if advancing the cams (=moving the torque peak lower) will help a 5-speed. It does help with my auto.
On my car the following added only ~15HP/10TQ over the published rating (DynoJet + %20 for the auto).
Note that the imperial torque rating was misprinted by Porsche for 80-82, and is actually 256ft lbs. (=348Nm), not 265.
Open air box
Stock exhaust manifolds
3" single exhaust, no cat
Stock 23 degree ignition advance
Removal of engine driven fan, air pump
Adjustable fuel pressure regulator, +7PSI (43PSI)
I've also removed >200lbs of weight, which helped tremendously.
I did not get a baseline dyno with the stock equipment, but it was a real dog. Now it's decently fast, not scary fast, but fast.
On my car the following added only ~15HP/10TQ over the published rating (DynoJet + %20 for the auto).
Note that the imperial torque rating was misprinted by Porsche for 80-82, and is actually 256ft lbs. (=348Nm), not 265.
Open air box
Stock exhaust manifolds
3" single exhaust, no cat
Stock 23 degree ignition advance
Removal of engine driven fan, air pump
Adjustable fuel pressure regulator, +7PSI (43PSI)
I've also removed >200lbs of weight, which helped tremendously.
I did not get a baseline dyno with the stock equipment, but it was a real dog. Now it's decently fast, not scary fast, but fast.
03-22-2004, 09:44 PM
#21
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Hold tight for more information on the turbocharger system for the L-Jet cars. Fabrication has already started.
In my opinion, dropping a couple of grand on headers and exaust is not worth the effort. 15-20 HP is not worth that kind of money.
It will be easy to bolt on 100+ HP with a proper turbo setup, probably more like 150 HP off the crank. Do I hear 200+ HP if you have the patience to strengthen the bottom end?
Personally if you have a really nice early car I think it is worth keeping. The early cars are more simplistic and easy to work with. Just 5 lbs of turbocharged boost will allow you to motor away from a stock 928 S4 without much work, not to mention lots of 911s. My 1981 looks like a time warp 928, because it has been well kept and kept out of the sun. I can only assume there are others like it. How many early cars have been sold at a huge loss in favor of a car with more power?
The best part is in the end you have a sleeper that can hang with most modern high performance cars.
My revised Callaway setup made 370 RWHP, or about 420-440 crank HP and that is with stock heads and intake system on a 4.5 liter.
In my opinion, dropping a couple of grand on headers and exaust is not worth the effort. 15-20 HP is not worth that kind of money.
It will be easy to bolt on 100+ HP with a proper turbo setup, probably more like 150 HP off the crank. Do I hear 200+ HP if you have the patience to strengthen the bottom end?
Personally if you have a really nice early car I think it is worth keeping. The early cars are more simplistic and easy to work with. Just 5 lbs of turbocharged boost will allow you to motor away from a stock 928 S4 without much work, not to mention lots of 911s. My 1981 looks like a time warp 928, because it has been well kept and kept out of the sun. I can only assume there are others like it. How many early cars have been sold at a huge loss in favor of a car with more power?
The best part is in the end you have a sleeper that can hang with most modern high performance cars.
My revised Callaway setup made 370 RWHP, or about 420-440 crank HP and that is with stock heads and intake system on a 4.5 liter.
Last edited by John.; 03-22-2004 at 10:09 PM.
03-22-2004, 11:05 PM
#22
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John.,
How much is the additional 150 HP going to cost? There are at least a couple systems out there with pricetags, being delivered. Where does this fit into the mix with the other forced induction systems?
How much is the additional 150 HP going to cost? There are at least a couple systems out there with pricetags, being delivered. Where does this fit into the mix with the other forced induction systems?
03-23-2004, 12:54 PM
#23
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It will be comparable in cost to the CS kits being talked about, but will contain a lot more engineering. Perhaps a bit more money, but will definitely be woth the extra coin for sure. I'll know more as the build process progresses...
03-23-2004, 12:59 PM
#24
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FSA,
Who is your paint guy? I know your paying in beer, but I wouldn't mind finding a good paint guy, which I would pay of course, to do final sanding and paint (when I get to that point).
Who is your paint guy? I know your paying in beer, but I wouldn't mind finding a good paint guy, which I would pay of course, to do final sanding and paint (when I get to that point).
03-29-2004, 02:51 AM
#25
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Originally posted by ViribusUnits
For referenceing to the Euro S intake and throtal body, go to that huge thread about it. Use the search fuction for Euro S Throtal Body. There are several cars that have the Euro S TB installed and claim a increase in hp. The throtal body almsot certantly does something, otherwise Porsche wouldn't have bothered in the Euro S.
For referenceing to the Euro S intake and throtal body, go to that huge thread about it. Use the search fuction for Euro S Throtal Body. There are several cars that have the Euro S TB installed and claim a increase in hp. The throtal body almsot certantly does something, otherwise Porsche wouldn't have bothered in the Euro S.
Porsche used the larger throttle bodies and runners on an engine with longer duration, higher lift camshafts and larger valves. I don't doubt that given that combination of modifications, the intake/throttle body would provide a power increase, but it just isn't there on a stock 4.5 engine because the stock throttle body is capable of delivering all of the air that the engine requires. I can provide exhaustive details for anyone who wants more information.
03-29-2004, 09:30 AM
#26
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"Porsche used the larger throttle bodies and runners on an engine with longer duration, higher lift camshafts and larger valves. I don't doubt that given that combination of modifications, the intake/throttle body would provide a power increase, but it just isn't there on a stock 4.5 engine because the stock throttle body is capable of delivering all of the air that the engine requires. I can provide exhaustive details for anyone who wants more information"
Jon, you're letting facts get in the way of fantasy, using science to obscure romance, where will it end....
Absolutely correct - the whole is more than the sum of the parts, and only some of the parts is unlikely a measurable improvement.
Such lessons came cheaply in the era of carbs: everyone wanted to bolt on a Holley 780cfm to chevy/amc small blocks for all the HP gains - and usually got a flat spot big enough to allow a VW to slip by; however, by adding a 'dome', mild cam, and headers - the seat of the pants dyno was good enough to confirm a real breathing improvement.
Jon, you're letting facts get in the way of fantasy, using science to obscure romance, where will it end....
Absolutely correct - the whole is more than the sum of the parts, and only some of the parts is unlikely a measurable improvement.
Such lessons came cheaply in the era of carbs: everyone wanted to bolt on a Holley 780cfm to chevy/amc small blocks for all the HP gains - and usually got a flat spot big enough to allow a VW to slip by; however, by adding a 'dome', mild cam, and headers - the seat of the pants dyno was good enough to confirm a real breathing improvement.
