Speedtoys

You could remove the button, as it's really, 99% of the time, misleading.

Make it so they HAVE to pick -1-, and the only options are the correct options, or at the least, they only pick the -1- they know is correct.

The changes of over selecting incorrectly have -got- to be lower than 'Fits Everything' incorrect use.

dr bob

But ther really are parts, like wheels, that fit several models. Excpt the 928. Lots of Porsche parts are that way.


Besides, the discussion is about making good listings, so the search terms will work as intended. Format your listing so that "928 Parts" button does what it's supposed to. When a shopper clicks on it. Simple! Put a link to that listing

dr bob

GT6ixer

Bob, this is not how the rules you posted are worded. It specifically states, “Members are encouraged (but not required) to post all Ads in the MarketPlace...” I did not see any language which said the Marketplace had to be the primary posting location or that members are prohibited to only post in a tech forum. Your postings above imply we “must” post in Marketplace and if we also post here we “must” link to the MP ad. Is there another guideline section that you you can point us to which states this, because the one above clearly contradicts with what you are telling us.

The best part about the 928 forum on RL is that we are, without a doubt, the most hands on DIY owners of any of the Porsche models. The strength of this community is the ability and willingness for us all to communicate, collaborate, and share knowledge. When a for sale ad pops up, there is an opportunity for those interested to ask questions and vet the part, many times leading to a tech-centric thread that we all can learn from. Forcing ads to be in both spots adds unnecessary burden and jeopardizes the good-faith worthwhile discussions where everyone has an opportunity to participate. These discussions will undoubtedly not be as deep and meaningful over on the Marketplace. Yes we are special. We have the largest single model user group on RL and I don’t think allowing the 928 members special treatment diminishes any integrity RL is trying to capture by unilaterally applying “rules” across the website. Just my .02

dr bob

Hi Nate --

I also shared that this is transitory. The Marketplace will be the primary venue for selling stuff. We are in the getting-familiar stage now.


Please consider the Marketplace as another parallel vehicle to carry your for-sale message to a potentially larger audience. Within the forum, we have a relatively captive audience. Good, but there are more who may be interested. Think of the Marketplace as a highway billboard, where posting just here is more like labels on stuff at your garage sale. Items for sale ads in the forum are interesting right up to the point they fall off the front page. As I type this, the oldest post on my displayed front page (set to show 40 threads per page...) is less than 4 days. Meanwhile, a FS post from a user was bumped up from about a year ago. Guess what -- no need to "bump" listings in the Marketplace! They show up in search results until you mark them sold. While the 928 forum is hardly clogged with FS posts, other forums would be based on ad model volume. Plus, maybe the parts you are selling would fit another model. Forum exposure limits your potential market, while a Marketplace post would expose your items to those other model owners. Yes, it's a change. Yes we are stubborn and set in our ways and habits. Yes, this is a change for the better, especially if you actually want your stuff to sell.

GT6ixer

Hey Bob, I understand that the MP may gain more eyes but why not let it be up to the member selling their stuff to decide where they are going to post? Why is it going to become a mandate? Can you perhaps share your understanding of why the powers that be feel the need to grow the MP? My guess is this has to be related to ad revenue somehow. It clearly isn’t to clean up the tech forums that have “too many” FS posts. If that was the case then they would have ruled that cross posting was not allowed. However since it is, in theory there could be zero change in the amount of FS ads populating tech forums.

Also you say the rules are transitory. So that means currently this is not a rule but will become one? I presume as a moderator you are given the authority to enforce rules but not create them. Again, as the rules you posted are written, only posting FS ads in the tech forum is not currently prohibited, correct? I am not trying to be difficult, but my career deals with certification of aircraft products per the written FAA regulations. The wording of written rules is paramount and it is the job of the FAA regulators to ensure the interpretation of those rules are understood by the applicant. In this case you have shown us the rules but interpreted contrary to how they are stated. Again are you telling us these rules will be updated in the future to require all FS ads being posted in the MP? And if that is the case are you also telling us that if someone only posts in the tech forum prior to the rules being updated that their ads will still be removed by the mods if they do not also post in MP, even though the post by Robb M. says it is “not required “?

drooman

I get why you are heading this direction...couple observations:

Ironically I went to use the marketplace to post cars for sale only a few days ago, only to find my car makes were not in the Make selection list. There was no way around it, one cannot post a Tesla or Lancia or a number of other makes for sale (Geo and Yugo made the list however) I posted a request in the forum problems area about it. It’s only been a day or two so I can’t really complain about my request being ignored, for now. I suggest you tighten up the marketplace functionality as described by a number of regular contributors here before sending everyone over there. RL search is well behind the times, it’s faster to pop open another browser window and google search “Rennlist 928_____ to find things. You might want to check out “thesamba” VW site they have a well organized classified section for many submodels of VW handling thousands of ads.

How will these rules effect our busiest thread “928s for sale” ? It’s basically hundreds of replies per month referring to cars for sale online...elsewhere. if a member on here has a car for sale on Craigslist and I post it in the 928s for sale thread what happens if I’m a member and they are not, or vise versa? Many of the replies to this thread are links to auctions. Aren’t most posts in there technically “violations”? We would ALL hate to see that go.

dr bob

Droo --

I'll share the issue with missing brand options, and the link to the samba vw site.

The "928's for sale" thread is for third-party mentions of 'discovered' cars for sale. It's not a place to list -your- car for sale. I don't have any extra garage space now, so I don't browse the listings. I 'll take a cruise through and, if necessary, add a reminder there that it's not and can't be for first-party listings.


Thanks for all the suggestions and comments. These are how the site improves.

dr bob

On this issue, there's actually some moderator participation in how the rules are written. Like you, I get to write and suffer the consequences of many industry standards. For me that's in the electric power generation industry. In this Rennlist case the initial language is pretty soft, on purpose I suspect. The actual "rule" intent is shared with the mods, carried down from the mountain on an Android tablet (times have changed...), past a burning bush, and the team then gets to come up with implementation. In the specific case of our beloved 928 forum, the total volume of FS threads is a tiny fraction of the number of, say, 911 or Boxster cars for sale. The formalized policy is primarily needed in those higher-volume forums. The small-volume forums get sort of swept up; a site-wide policy needs to be equitable across all forums. We've kind of ignored that as we've moved along, while "it has been determined" that we need to be better at following site policy on this.

I want to again stress that having your ads in the Marketplace will dramatically increase the number of views they will get. Those views will be out of the "shark tank", most from out of the "shark tank", and at least initially out of reach of the effects of the "we eat our own!" tendency that's too prevalent in our forum-tank when cars are offered for sale here. I encourage members to create parallel threads here, with a link to your marketplace ad. No need to duplicate the Marketplace info since the link does that for you. But it will offer a place to manage discussion of deeper details among our group, with less risk of muddying (read: crapping up) the primary listing. This is nothing but upside for Members who want to sell on Rennlist. The Marketplace has its own rules about critical pile-ons, disparaging posts, negative critique of pricing, or having others jump in with their similar stuff for sale. None of these hard seller-protection rules happen here in the tech forum, as we too often see. It's only lately that some bit of civility has happened here, where sellers here are told when they might be selling too low. More clicks and more views will probably help parent IB, but most importantly it will help us as member-sellers. More views, broader market, more sales opportunities.

Speedtoys

I guess I agree with all of the "why" that you've posted.

But I think that its a waste of IB's time trying to learn how to Ebay (sosrted listings) within the confined of what a forum can and cannot do.

So..I guess if the idea is you HAVE to make a MP post, and then Create a thread linking it in the 928 forum, you're happy, and then the OP is happy that actual 928 people will also see it.

I can now see where IB will then become a broker, not allow linked posts, and take a % of the sale as to broker/consigner/escrow.

Not like IB was really where to go to buy and sell parts in the first place..it was 'a place', but MP is in the 100s of 1000s of items and eyeballs short of reflecting the true Porsche parts/cars marketplace.

As time goes by, fewer and fewer people see the value in forums, and stick to FB where the next new guy in line gets to ask "Whats up with my fuel pump" every 10 days. It's kinda sad.

But..for people where Forums are central, I suppose making it BETTER was a great idea, mandatory..not so much.

I'll try to use it as I sort out old stuff in the Future Bob.

chart928s4

@DrBob I appreciate you are trying to put a good face on this, but it is yet another change that simply does not seem to be in the interest of 928 owners. It is certainly not a "change for the better" - in fact the option has always been there for any member to post in the marketplace. But 928 people check posts here, not in the marketplace. Virtually none of them will search the marketplace every hour for a unicorn part until one suddenly appears. But if a MAF, LH, or Club Sport wheels show up for sale on the 928 Forum they will be gone very quickly.

The marketplace is helpful for some things and in fact I got my 928 there. But is it really that bad for a member to post saying I have a 928-xxx-xx-xx I'm not using - anyone want to buy it?

It is almost beside the point, but even if there was a good argument for the restriction, the marketplace is not very friendly for 928-specific anything. The search capability is terrible.

I am baffled and discouraged by the many recent seemingly arbitrary changes to operations, rule interpretations, and related enforcement actions. IB and its rules are always controversial, but it seems like every week lately there is some new crackdown. Hasn't there been enough turmoil lately? It's just a tech forum - if there's no harm being done then just leave it alone.

drooman

I can say that the Mods/techs/warlords/jedi are currently showing a very cooperative spirit to fixing up the Marketplace.

https://rennlist.com/forums/rennlist...l#post17006743

Wisconsin Joe

If I understand what's happening, there are being some rule changes that are being tried out. It sounds like they come up with an idea, float it to the mods, the mods put it out as a 'recommendation' to see how it flies.
If stuff works, it will be fully implemented & enforced. If not, hopefully not.

I don't see this as an entirely bad thing.
I also don't see it a 'change for the sake of change'.

However, this little corner of the universe is a bit different from the rest.

The 928 world is not like the 911 world.
Smaller, more dedicated, more of the "DIY crowd".

Much of that is because the 928 is such a unicorn.
Most cities around the US, you can't throw a rock without risking hitting a "European Car Specialist" who's perfectly capable of working on a 911 or Boxter.

But a competent 928 guy? Pfft.

Finding a 911 or Boxter for sale is the same thing.

Because of this disparity, buying & selling 928 parts and cars is much more of a niche thing.

Because of that, parts & cars being put up on the forum is far less of an issue than on the 911 or Boxter ones.

Even prospective owners seem to figure this out. The smart potential 928 purchaser (if that's not an oxymoron) comes here and asks for advice. We've had a couple of them this week alone.

I hope the new rules take some of that into consideration.

Speedtoys

"I hope the new rules take some of that into consideration."

If it's not a problem then _it's not a problem_...

dr bob

Without digging back through the individual statements shared since my last post...

-- NOTHING prevents you from, and in fact I encourage you to POST YOUR 928 STUFF HERE IN THE FORUM, just do it in the form of a link to your MP listing.

-- As far as thinking the Search filters in the MP aren't perfect, know that they work if you plug the correct values into the options when you post. Plug those in well, and the MP search will bring up your listing

-- As far as getting links to work to find your exact MP listing, just copy the URL back to your listing post here, so people can just click on it to get there. Now everybody who would see your posting in the forum can see it from the forum. Any other exposure via the MP search function is gravy - views/looks that you probably would not have otherwise enjoyed.

-- None of this makes IB/Rennlist into a broker. Nor will IB/Rennlist look like a consignment dealer, any more than Craigslist does. No percentage of the sales price is owed to or collected by IB. You pay for the service with your membership, no additional fees or costs.


Think of a study case. BillyJoeBob decides he's interested in a 928, and goes searching. using his favorite Gerbil search engine. Gerbil is much more likely to find MP sections with 928's for sale than a few listings scattered around a single tech forum. BillyJoeBob doesn't yet know about our tech forum, but will if he follows the link to the forum thread from the MP listing he found with Gerbil. We (the loyal and sustaining support network in the 928 tech forum) regularly look in our own house for stuff before we go outside. Outsiders like BillyJoeBob don't know what we know, be that good or bad. But with the dominance of the Gerbil and to a lesser extent the Hamster Crawlers, having a listing in the Marketplace offers a better chance at exposure to non-Rennlist lookers.

At some point, the "updated guidance" will change to "a rule". Not because of a problem here in 928-rennville, but because of the more current and more popular models with so many more cars changing hands. Having and enforcing separate standards for separate forums and models is impossible. The Marketplace is here to stay. Get used to it. Get competent with it and how to fill out all the ad options so the right people will find and look at your listing.

Like many, I too used to avoid change mostly because I wasn't particularly happy about another learning curve. But in lots of slices of life, change is a net improvement. There's no convenient time to change, but there are some very identifiable points where having already changed is a big benefit. Change can be good. Gather enough of it together and you can buy a new industry.

linderpat

I really don't see what the issue is here either. When I sell stuff, like my last 928, I posted in the MP and here, and cross-linked from here to the MP. I wanted as many eyes on it as I could. It just makes sense that if you are selling something, you shoot for the broadest exposure.