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If someone out there thinks it is cost effective to make your own gasket (a half hour of labor, in my shop, costs the client more than the total cost of my pan gasket. And I'm pretty damn sure I can't cut one out and put all those holes in it in a half an hour), you are more than welcome to order a sheet of this material and make your own gasket.
Each time that dude posts the same thing this is what goes through my mind. No way am I spending any time to cut one out, much less a dozen when I can call Rog and have it at my door in an hour.
Each time that dude posts the same thing this is what goes through my mind. No way am I spending any time to cut one out, much less a dozen when I can call Rog and have it at my door in an hour.
I'm guessing that the import duties are very high and labor costs are very low, in Sweden, making this worthwhile to him.
But if someone wants to do that....go for it, right?
It;s good to have options today when it comes to oil pan gaskets for our car. Silicone, GB new gasket or original they all work and have their pros and cons.
My GTS was the first ever with a silicone style oil pan gasket. I had the idea together with Roger in spring of 2005, after talking about re-usable valve cover gaskets for air cooled 911 engines.
Roger and myself installed the #1 SOPG prototype on my GTS on 12. November 2005. No studs, no self locking nuts. Just cleaned the bolts with brake parts cleaner and put them in with a drop of Loctite.
Close to 15 years and roughly 60 kmiles later and the there are still no leaks. I guess this qualifies for an extend and overall successful test period.
I'm NOT saying that this is the best gasket out there but I can certainly say that it works (if installed correctly and not overtorqued). I'm not a professional like others here in the forum but I have installed more than 30 SOPGs, PorKensioners, Gates TB and Volvo mounts all from Roger with ZERO issues.
I completely agree with Sean. Even if there are cheaper methods around to make parts, what is your time worth and I'd rather support our known vendors. They make sure that we can continue to enjoy our cars and the friendships that they have created for me/us not only one continent.
Schocki,
I was probably #3 or 4 when I installed the SOG on the Stepson in Roger's garage in 2005. Like you, mine was completely leak free until I had someone under the car besides me that thought he was doing me a huge favor and tightening all the oil pan bolts.
Suddenly I had oil all over my garage floor requiring a replacement gasket. All good again.
I believe we are ready for you to return to the US just anytime. I always enjoyed your insight, knowledge and instruction while working on the 928.
Schocki,
I was probably #3 or 4 when I installed the SOG on the Stepson in Roger's garage in 2005. Like you, mine was completely leak free until I had someone under the car besides me that thought he was doing me a huge favor and tightening all the oil pan bolts.
Suddenly I had oil all over my garage floor requiring a replacement gasket. All good again.
I believe we are ready for you to return to the US just anytime. I always enjoyed your insight, knowledge and instruction while working on the 928.
We all did mine back in late ‘06 early ‘07 and I’ve not touched it since then. Only one I had to redo was Chucky’s because he snugged the bolts up being a dummy.
It;s good to have options today when it comes to oil pan gaskets for our car. Silicone, GB new gasket or original they all work and have their pros and cons.
My GTS was the first ever with a silicone style oil pan gasket. I had the idea together with Roger in spring of 2005, after talking about re-usable valve cover gaskets for air cooled 911 engines.
Roger and myself installed the first ever SOPG on my GTS on 12. November 2005. No studs, no self locking nuts. Just cleaned the bolts with brake parts cleaner and put them in with a drop of Loctite.
Close to 15 years and roughly 60 kmiles later and the there are still no leaks. I guess this qualifies for an extend and overall successful test period.
I'm NOT saying that this is the best gasket out there but I can certainly say that it works (if installed correctly and not overtorqued). I'm not a professional like others here in the forum but I have installed more than 30 SOPGs, PorKensioners, Gates TB and Volvo mounts all from Roger with ZERO issues.
I completely agree with Sean. Even if there are cheaper methods around to make parts, what is your time worth and I'd rather support our known vendors. They make sure that we can continue to enjoy our cars and the friendships that they have created for me/us not only one continent.
November 2005 November 2005
I think it is great that there's a bunch of options, for people to choose from.
I have never been completely happy with the cork gasket, but I can install one and be pretty certain it will not leak for 30,000 miles. It requires a lot of very careful torquing, going around 4-5 times to get this result.
I could never get a silicone gasket to work quite right. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the "original" silicone pan gaskets were cut from a sheet of silicone, which was much harder material than the later silicone gaskets which were made from a mold and were softer and less consistent on the thickness. On the ones I tried, either the barely tightened hardware fell out, it squished too much and leaked, or I had to spend a bunch of money for studs and locknuts (plus spend a bunch of time cleaning and installing the hardware). I just could never install one and be comfortable with it.
Just too much brain damage for either of the above, for me.
I just wanted a pan gasket I could install without fussing with it, without doing a bunch of other things to make it work, and not having to go around 4-5 times to tighten. Just wanted simple...torque the hardware once to 50 inch lbs., torque it a second time to 72 inch lbs., and be done with it. No "trick hardware. No sealants. Just a gasket and the stock hardware.
Install and never think about it, again.
......I'm pretty sure I have that, if someone else wants it.
If I was doing this job again, I would make a slight modification. I'd fill in all the pockets on the oil sump gasket surface and sand flush increasing the gasket bearing surface. It was very dumb of Porsche to pocket out the gasket surface. I would also check out Greg's gasket.
For those interested, the pockets are there to maintain a relatively consistent wall thickness. Castings do not like to have thick and thin sections adjacent to one another. Since the thin sections solidify quicker, and shrink while doing so, they pull the liquid metal in the thicker section away, causing what is called shrinkage. The pockets are indeed necessary, but should have been on the outside of the sump.
Hmm. Besides leaking after 10, 20, 30 yrs, are the 928 sumps, and have sumps over the LOOOONG life of these cars, become known notorious for failing - other than due to normal and expected worn gaskets? And, are the reasons for leaks when they do occur due to the cut outs? The pockets? Or are they simply leaking after 15yrs or so due to a worn gasket - a normal repair item...?
Schocki,
I was probably #3 or 4 when I installed the SOG on the Stepson in Roger's garage in 2005. Like you, mine was completely leak free until I had someone under the car besides me that thought he was doing me a huge favor and tightening all the oil pan bolts.
Suddenly I had oil all over my garage floor requiring a replacement gasket. All good again.
I believe we are ready for you to return to the US just anytime. I always enjoyed your insight, knowledge and instruction while working on the 928.
I agree, we always had a great time on the Tyson Ranch with a lot of wrenching and BS, awesome! The 928 community is what I miss the most. Back then I was a novice on 928 topics, just because I "only" owned my GTS for two years. I always worked on my cars and owned Porsches since 1992 but today after 17 years of GTS ownership, there is not a lot left, that I have not taken apart. Except for the engine, it just doesn't want to break and is still NOT using any oil! You would enjoy the level of knowledge and lessons learned that come with 928 ownership plus more BS!
Sorry but there are no more jobs for me in Texas anymore after I quit flying a couple of years ago. I had a great and accident free time for 20 years and it's time now for others to do the job.
I still travel the world a lot (if possible) and live in foreign countries. Enjoying life to the max extend possible and absorbing all the good things that each country has to offer. Take care and stay healthy Dallas 928 gang and drive em like you stole em!
BTW don't forget: only a German understands the deep thoughts behind the engineering of our cars..... (ist nur ein Spass, solo un chiste, just kidding)
If I mail Roger for a gasket I probably have to wait up to two weeks before it arrives. Roger is quick but shipping and custom handling are slow. That is one of the reasons I make my own stuff, I cannot wait when I have to finish things. Shipping and import duties will double the cost of the gasket. No way I will pay USD 160 for a sump gasket when I can make it costless in my own shop with gasket material I have on the shelf and I do have quite a lot of which need to be used up. I usually do not charge any labor costs to myself.
I make many different kind of gaskets. Recently I had to make a gasket for a Getrag 265/5 gear box. I could have ordered that particular gasket from Germany but I could not wait. We in the old world do not have vendors around the corner, we have to cope on our own. Mr. Brown, Klingersil is a well known maker of gasket material, I remember it from back in the 60´s.
Åke
Hmm. Besides leaking after 10, 20, 30 yrs, are the 928 sumps, and have sumps over the LOOOONG life of these cars, become known notorious for failing - other than due to normal and expected worn gaskets? And, are the reasons for leaks when they do occur due to the cut outs? The pockets? Or are they simply leaking after 15yrs or so due to a worn gasket - a normal repair item...?
A poor design is a poor design regardless of how long it takes to fail. Perhaps, if designed properly, it would never fail, which should be the goal, especially since it wouldn't cost more to do it right. The Porsche design reduces nearly in half the effective gasket area, all while providing a volume in which the gasket can shrink into. When I pulled my sump to change the gasket and saw all those pockets filled with oil, my first reaction (as a seasoned design engineer) was "what a stupid design". I stand by my assessment.
A poor design is a poor design regardless of how long it takes to fail. Perhaps, if designed properly, it would never fail, which should be the goal, especially since it wouldn't cost more to do it right. The Porsche design reduces nearly in half the effective gasket area, all while providing a volume in which the gasket can shrink into. When I pulled my sump to change the gasket and saw all those pockets filled with oil, my first reaction (as a seasoned design engineer) was "what a stupid design". I stand by my assessment.
On the other hand, those holes give the pan two separate sealing edges on the gasket, which is easily visible even when I remove my new gasket, after allowing it to sit compressed for a few months. A smooth surface all the way across allows fluid to flow freely from the inside to the outside.
And if they were to be filled in, the pressure exerted by the hardware (per square inch) would be radically reduced.
I think that, even if the roll of material happens to be "free" and I pay myself for labor, most folks would rather have a known-good gasket on the bench, ready to go in and get buttoned up again as soon as the oil sump is off and cleaned.
My work pace is slowing for several reasons these days. Adding the time it takes to trace and cut, punch and clean up a gasket from a roll of material means my OPG and MM day that was already too long moves well into the extremely-long or two days category. Making the gasket sounds like a simple task really -- just plop the sump onto the gasket material that's taped to the workbench, cut it with a sharp razor knife, grab your indexing punch to pass a center for each hole onto the gasket material. Lift the sump and re-tape the gasket to the bench. Use your handy circle drawing template and index it centered on each of the indexing marks, draw the circles. Come back with a 7mm gasket punch, line it up on each of the circles you drew, and punch the holes. Then grab a scale and lay out the inside cut pattern, and your sharp razor knife to actually make that cut without tearing the gasket material when the razor knife drags. One slip, one miss on a hole location, one errant cut into the sealing area, and you get to start over with a new piece of gasket material and a fresh add-e-tood about making your own gaskets.
On the other hand, those holes give the pan two separate sealing edges on the gasket, which is easily visible even when I remove my new gasket, after allowing it to sit compressed for a few months. A smooth surface all the way across allows fluid to flow freely from the inside to the outside.
And if they were to be filled in, the pressure exerted by the hardware (per square inch) would be radically reduced.
Alas, then the screw torque could be increased, increasing bolt preload without applying too much pressure on the gasket causing it plastically deform.
Alas, then the screw torque could be increased, increasing bolt preload without applying too much pressure on the gasket causing it plastically deform.
Bonjour,
I remember at the beginning when I bought the car… I was constantly retorquing the screws…
When I changed the engine mounts, I changed to the orange one. Should be silicon. No more torquing required and I forget the issue.
I had 2 cork seals in the garage. I’ve been given one and the other was in my seal kit… so I used one on my rebuild engine…
600 miles later… slight oil consumption and oil underneath the engine… I could not believe could be the pan screw… to make sure I try to tight one… loose… another… loose … all loose!!
06-18-2020, 03:32 PM
(ist nur ein Spass, solo un chiste, just kidding)
