air conditioning question - where ?
02-28-2004, 11:32 AM
#1
Instructor
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air conditioning question - where ?
While I am waiting for the service manuals....
where is the low and high pressure valves for the air conditioner located ?
I want to see if it has been converted to R134a or if it is still original.
Plus it is driving me nuts that I can't find them......
where is the low and high pressure valves for the air conditioner located ?
I want to see if it has been converted to R134a or if it is still original.
Plus it is driving me nuts that I can't find them......
02-28-2004, 12:36 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
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Donberry,
When my s4 was converted to 134a, the shop that did the work placed a sticker under the hood with the date of the conversion, etc. Anywone who converts an older model car without placing some form of notification to any future technician or DIY'er who works on the A/C system should be beaten silly. As you may know, inadvertently "contaminating" shop equipment with either refrigerant (134a into an r-12 evacuator and vice versa) is a costly problem to rectify for the shop. Tread carefully...speak to the PO and others here who can help you identify which refrigerant is in your system. I have NO idea how to safely determine what is in your system...sorry. Best of luck, Tim
When my s4 was converted to 134a, the shop that did the work placed a sticker under the hood with the date of the conversion, etc. Anywone who converts an older model car without placing some form of notification to any future technician or DIY'er who works on the A/C system should be beaten silly. As you may know, inadvertently "contaminating" shop equipment with either refrigerant (134a into an r-12 evacuator and vice versa) is a costly problem to rectify for the shop. Tread carefully...speak to the PO and others here who can help you identify which refrigerant is in your system. I have NO idea how to safely determine what is in your system...sorry. Best of luck, Tim
02-28-2004, 06:35 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
IIRC there is a fitting near the starter post. Down here there a different fitting screwed on over the original to signify R134 is within - larger than R12 valve.
jp 83 S
jp 83 S
02-28-2004, 08:25 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
When you covert to R-134a, you put a diffrent style fitting over the old valves.
The new fitting will not take a R-12 hose. Only a R-134a.
There is one fitting on the reciver/dryer. The reciver/dryer is infrount of the a/c condenser. There should be a stalk up from the receiver/dryer that the
fitting is actualy attached too. This is the high pressure fitting.
There is another fitting on the return line from the evaporator to the compresser. This is the low side fitting. The line run parral to the passangers side valve cover, and the fitting is about a quater the way up the line. You'll have to pull the intake tube to get to it.
The new R-134a kits often use red and blue caps for the fittings. The old Porsche R-12 fittings used a black plastic/metal caps on my car.
Good luck.
The new fitting will not take a R-12 hose. Only a R-134a.
There is one fitting on the reciver/dryer. The reciver/dryer is infrount of the a/c condenser. There should be a stalk up from the receiver/dryer that the
fitting is actualy attached too. This is the high pressure fitting.
There is another fitting on the return line from the evaporator to the compresser. This is the low side fitting. The line run parral to the passangers side valve cover, and the fitting is about a quater the way up the line. You'll have to pull the intake tube to get to it.
The new R-134a kits often use red and blue caps for the fittings. The old Porsche R-12 fittings used a black plastic/metal caps on my car.
Good luck.
02-28-2004, 08:42 PM
#5
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yes, the R134 fittings are totally different so no one could accidentally think it was R12 by mistake. I have switched a few cars over to R134 and I believe I did leave a sticker off, but there is no way to confuse the 2.
It was just driving me crazy not being able to find the fittings.
Appreciate the info.
I am going to take her on her 1st long trip in a few weeks and drive her down to Florida. I am anxious to spend some time with her.
It was just driving me crazy not being able to find the fittings.
Appreciate the info.
I am going to take her on her 1st long trip in a few weeks and drive her down to Florida. I am anxious to spend some time with her.
02-28-2004, 08:48 PM
#6
Nordschleife Master
What year is your car?
You sound like a new owner.
You might want to bring a few relays, fuses, and stuff. Things have a way of happening when your not around home.
You sound like a new owner.
You might want to bring a few relays, fuses, and stuff. Things have a way of happening when your not around home.
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02-29-2004, 02:53 AM
#8
Nordschleife Master
There was a big deal over this a while back.
Basicly it goes like this:
1. The drop in replacements aren't R12. They are all mixtures of refergerents. They basicly don't evporate at the same rate. One evaports faster, the other slower. The oil is more souable in one than the other. This leads to complications.
If you ever have a slow leak on the low side, one part of the refergernt mix will leak faster than the other. Depending on the mix, this could be very bad as the remaining refergernt might not disolve the oil needed to keep the system fuctioning. No oil = locked up compresser.
2. There is no "standard" drop in replacement. If you go to an automotive a/c shop, there will be two recovery machines. R12, and R-134a. It is illegal in the US, and most countrys that signed the Montreal Protocall, to vent the refergernt into the atmosphere, even the drop in replacements. If you want to recharge your system R-134a is cheaper, and more readly avalible. If you want your system trouble shot, it's again more readly availbe, and cheaper.
3. Some drop in replacements are rather flamable. As in they are litteraly a more refined version of LPG. So if your ever in a car crash, the frount a/c condenser is a thinly walled, high pressure LPG tank. This is not good.
4. There is a proformance diffrence for most of the drop ins, it's about the same as the R-134a. Face it, they're not R12. If they were just as cheap, safe and effective, they would have been used in place of R12 to begin with.
However, on a 928, there is basicly no desernable diffrence. Our a/c condenser is huge. If there was ever a car that was a perfect canatate for conversion, the 928 is it.
5. To be legal, you have to convert the system to the drop in replacement. This requires basicly the same steps that it takes to convert to R-134a. Meaning all the R-12 must be recovered. The dryer change, the ports changed, or addapters added. Stickers added. So on so forth. Why go through the hassle when you can meet the standard, be cheaper, and still have good a/c?
So thats why to convert your car to R-134a.
Basicly it goes like this:
1. The drop in replacements aren't R12. They are all mixtures of refergerents. They basicly don't evporate at the same rate. One evaports faster, the other slower. The oil is more souable in one than the other. This leads to complications.
If you ever have a slow leak on the low side, one part of the refergernt mix will leak faster than the other. Depending on the mix, this could be very bad as the remaining refergernt might not disolve the oil needed to keep the system fuctioning. No oil = locked up compresser.
2. There is no "standard" drop in replacement. If you go to an automotive a/c shop, there will be two recovery machines. R12, and R-134a. It is illegal in the US, and most countrys that signed the Montreal Protocall, to vent the refergernt into the atmosphere, even the drop in replacements. If you want to recharge your system R-134a is cheaper, and more readly avalible. If you want your system trouble shot, it's again more readly availbe, and cheaper.
3. Some drop in replacements are rather flamable. As in they are litteraly a more refined version of LPG. So if your ever in a car crash, the frount a/c condenser is a thinly walled, high pressure LPG tank. This is not good.
4. There is a proformance diffrence for most of the drop ins, it's about the same as the R-134a. Face it, they're not R12. If they were just as cheap, safe and effective, they would have been used in place of R12 to begin with.
However, on a 928, there is basicly no desernable diffrence. Our a/c condenser is huge. If there was ever a car that was a perfect canatate for conversion, the 928 is it.
5. To be legal, you have to convert the system to the drop in replacement. This requires basicly the same steps that it takes to convert to R-134a. Meaning all the R-12 must be recovered. The dryer change, the ports changed, or addapters added. Stickers added. So on so forth. Why go through the hassle when you can meet the standard, be cheaper, and still have good a/c?
So thats why to convert your car to R-134a.
03-01-2004, 10:54 AM
#9
Drifting
Isceon 49
I've only had Isceon 49 in my car for six months, and I was only using the aircon for the first month of that, so I guess I better give it another year or two before saying definitively that it's perfect.
However, my understanding is that the 928 system with the very low compressor is well placed to avoid running dry of oil. Even so if a leak did occur hopefully the flourescent dye would make it very obvious.
In the UK there are only two widely available R12 drop in replacements so finding a suitable service agent shouldn't be difficult.
This one isn't flamable.
The vent temperatures seem low enough to me, but I can't remember what they are.
The installer did omit to add port adapters or labels - not so good.
But it only cost me just over $100.
However, my understanding is that the 928 system with the very low compressor is well placed to avoid running dry of oil. Even so if a leak did occur hopefully the flourescent dye would make it very obvious.
In the UK there are only two widely available R12 drop in replacements so finding a suitable service agent shouldn't be difficult.
This one isn't flamable.
The vent temperatures seem low enough to me, but I can't remember what they are.
The installer did omit to add port adapters or labels - not so good.
But it only cost me just over $100.
03-01-2004, 01:18 PM
#10
Nordschleife Master
All I had to do to convert to R-134a was two addapters, and new oil and refergernt. IIRC, it was less than 50 bucks.
However, I've been chaseing old seals since I got the car. I had a newish a/c line blow up. I had the nose seal on the newish compresser blow up, frying the clutch. I'm just not being very lucky with the a/c system.
And the vent temps are plenty cold, even dureing the West Texas Summers.
Well, a more precide discription. This car have been w/o a/c for years now. As a result, most of the rubber seals reflect that.
Sometime in the past, someone installed what looks like a Griffths a/c compresser kit. I do not know where it's from, or who actualy made it, so don't assume it was actualy a Griffths kit. They intend their kit to use R-134a, and this car has R-12 in it.
It had the two rubber compresser hoses. These hoses of course have crimp fittings to the metal connecters. One of the hoses had refergernt leaking around the crimp type connecter. So it had to be replaced. Get this, it was on the suction side of the compresser. Btw, this was with a R12 drop in replacement.
I was unable to change the nose seal out on the compresser, so I just left it. At the time it wasn't leaking, so I didn't worry too much about it. Well, on the hottest day I'd ever driven on, the nose seal let go. My guess is it didn't like the hot pressures, or being old.
The horror stories of R-134a are exactly that stores.
Good luck to you.
However, I've been chaseing old seals since I got the car. I had a newish a/c line blow up. I had the nose seal on the newish compresser blow up, frying the clutch. I'm just not being very lucky with the a/c system.
And the vent temps are plenty cold, even dureing the West Texas Summers.
Well, a more precide discription. This car have been w/o a/c for years now. As a result, most of the rubber seals reflect that.
Sometime in the past, someone installed what looks like a Griffths a/c compresser kit. I do not know where it's from, or who actualy made it, so don't assume it was actualy a Griffths kit. They intend their kit to use R-134a, and this car has R-12 in it.
It had the two rubber compresser hoses. These hoses of course have crimp fittings to the metal connecters. One of the hoses had refergernt leaking around the crimp type connecter. So it had to be replaced. Get this, it was on the suction side of the compresser. Btw, this was with a R12 drop in replacement.
I was unable to change the nose seal out on the compresser, so I just left it. At the time it wasn't leaking, so I didn't worry too much about it. Well, on the hottest day I'd ever driven on, the nose seal let go. My guess is it didn't like the hot pressures, or being old.
The horror stories of R-134a are exactly that stores.
Good luck to you.
