Blagave

Greg.....WTF is wrong with you. Do you take comfort in trolling and making rude comments. It seems to be a pattern with you and you might want to seek help. I only posted my build thread to provide information and receive help. I am by no means a custom car builder and never said I was.
I did not post my car in this thread and getting tired of the BS from people like yourself. Try and control yourself from being a "A" hole....seriously.

Blagave

Yeah.....Greg's right and the billion dollar a year plus in after market parts, SEMA, and all the builders around the country are wrong. Just go buy a new car instead of making something different, unique and special. With that mind set, why do you build new and improved components for the 928.....let me guess, because the parts you make are better than the 35 year old factory parts. I guess if you can make money off it, it doesn't count...

Shawn Stanford

Sure, but that stuff won't leave you dead on the side of the road.

My intended starting point is the 4.8L series, which turn out 250-300 horsepower in stock trim. I have no intention of making it any more powerful than that.

I don't want a modern day Chevy, I want a modern day motor in a 928. You can't seriously argue that the 928's motor is a viable 21st century design. Even Porsche isn't pretending that's so: they absolutely, completely, and utterly abandoned that powerplant.

So why should I stick with it?

Bigfoot928

No worries I have pretty thick skin. You should have been here during my variocam days. Granted the trans swap is much more simplistic than an engine swap. I have speedometer and revers backup switches.... that's it. Your's is a beautiful build, and you are in a unique position to do most if not all of the fabrication, most engine swaps easily exceed the skills of the person doing the swap unless the person is a pro such as yourself.

These engine swaps have always been controversial. Nomex underwear required.

GregBBRD

My point is simple and in line with this thread's subject....not about your ego. I'm not "picking" on your car....not anything remotely close!

As a matter of fact, your car looks pretty nice, from a distance.

That being said, as a professional and having build dozens of cars for people, are there going to be flaws or ways to do things better?

Of course.
Sorry, but the reality is that your front brakes just happen to be the perfect example. You happened to "pick" something that was "economical", but has less stopping power than a stock 928 late model caliper. In building a car with 600 horsepower, one does not need less brakes, they need lots more!

It's not a huge thing....it was your choice....and something simple, like brakes, can be changed.

Try and relax and not make enemies, from afar....it's not very nice or productive.


My ENTIRE point, here, is that buying a Chevy engine and stuffing it into a 928 isn't going to be the "end" of anything. It's only the beginning.....which I imagine you found out.

The additional power is going to require additional changes!!!!

........And the "remainder" of what hasn't been converted to "Chevy" is still a 35 year old car.

GregBBRD

I have clients who drive their cars, without any issue, all over the US, without even thinking about it.

I also have lots of people, coming to me, wanting to be able to achieve that.

I do understand your frustration.....what I "see" for workmanship/parts frustrates, me, too. The "928 repair world", outside my shop, seems to be a really "terrible" place, from what I see.

The reality of the 928 engine is that they are absolutely bulletproof and super reliable, when done correctly. Someone makes some "bad" choices and they can be/are a nightmare.

The "engine" turns out to be the simple part of the 928 model. Correctly done, the front hood should never need to be raised, except to change the oil every 7500 miles. And rebuilding the engine, properly the first time, will be cheaper than your Chevy conversion, by the time you are done!

Unfortunately, installing a Chevy engine isn't going to help one single bit with the overall reliability of the rest of the car. If you are stuck on the side of the road with a 928 engine, you are going to be stuck on the side of the road with a Chevy engine....928 engine "failures" are few and far between.

Blagave

One thing that has not been talked about is Smog. For those of us who live in California, its not just a matter of buying a junkyard LS motor and bolting it in........even the oldest 928 is not exempted from smog. The good thing is that GM sells the E-ROD LS series engines that meet CA CARB and if you meet CA smog regs, then you are good anywhere.
The E-rod motors are more expensive because, they come with ECU, catalytic converters, O2 sensors, wiring harness and fuse box. I believe the price for the LS3 425hp is around $8,500. They might have smaller motors for less.
In addition to the E-Rod crate engine, you will need to buy the accessories kit (alternator, AC pump, power steering and brackets) that's another $1,100 for new or you can source through junkyard. Figure another $1,200 for aluminum radiator and $400 for fans. The Renegade kit is $2,000 and add another $2,000 for clutch, hoses, power steering lines and sensors........ you are out of pocket roughly $14,000 before you have paid for the install. So it sounds like a 928 motor rebuild would be more cost effective price wise. You still have to remove the 928 engine and everything around it, so that's a push on time and cost verse LS. My "guess" is you could pay a shop like Renegade to install everything for $5,000.....just a guess at $100 per hour times 50 hours, which seems a little on the high side.
Figure $20,000 all in.....what is the cost of a 928 rebuild? If its half the price, it still might be worth while. Better gas mileage, more torque, more hp, 87 octane, etc.

Blagave

Greg, your point was not inline with the thread and LS conversions. You went out of your way to make a inaccurate comment on the brakes and when you were shown that you were wrong, you fired off another rude comment. You also speculated about the mileage being a indicator that there is something wrong with my car. If you are going fire shots at someone, be prepared for some coming back at you. I only know you by a few phone calls and what I see on the forum, so lets be perfectly clear here.....you made unjust comments that have nothing to do with the thread about me and my car and then you have the ***** to tell me to relax and not make enemies.......standard narcissist reply, which make me laugh. This is a hobby for me and you do this for a living and I must say your doing a fine job with customer relations.....with that said, get off your tiny soap box and try listening to others instead of being so negative......be happy

Oh yeah.....can you share how many LS conversions you have done, since this a LS conversion thread

GregBBRD

OK.

You can twist it around to your ego's content, but regardless of what I say/said or what you say/said, you still have tiny brakes on the front of what (on paper) should be a rocket. That is, unfortunately, reality. (Why you would sell this car after all this time, effort, and money (after driving it for 300 miles) points to the obvious....something is very wrong and your "dream" was not fulfilled.)

If someone buys your car and goes out and drives this like a "Pro Touring" car (which is what your car should be able to do) they are going to be in big, big, trouble. It might be able to make a single lap at Willow springs, before the brakes won't stop it.....maybe.


You are correct on one point, I do not do LS conversions. I tend to be more of a "traditionalist" these days.....especially since I can (and do) build 928 V-8's that make as much power, naturally aspirated, than your supercharged Chevy engine.

However, you're not talking to a novice in the Porsche/Chevy conversion world. I still have a client with a 350 in his 928, which I have worked on extensively, for him. I was extremely "active" in my "early" years with Chevy V8's in both 914's and 911's. I installed an all aluminum Donovan stroker engine in a brand new (literally brand new), perfect, 1979 930. My current client with the Chevy engine in his 928 had a 914 V-8, which I built for him. I was directly "involved"/built over 12 "Chevy" powered Porsches. I personally raced a wide body '67 911 with a 500+hp Trans Am 302 dry sumped Chevy engine, for years. When I built that car, I was very limited in what was offered for brake upgrades, back then.....Porsche didn't even have the '78 930 calipers and rotors, yet! I was running '76/'77 930 brakes....and carried two sets of rotors to every event....and not to hold down the sun shade.

So, whatever point you are trying to make, I'm not without experience, here. I can take a quick look at a car and tell what is going to work and what is not going to work.

It's called "experience".



I'm extremely qualified to be in this discussion. I do know what it takes. I do know what the real costs are, when done correctly.

I do know that someone "dreaming" about dropping in a Chevy engine into a 928 is going to be in for a real shock.

It's a much bigger job/more expensive than simply bolting in a Chevy engine.



Your car is the perfect example (which I used to make my point, not "pick" on you or your car, as I explained, above.)
For sale for $89,000 and it still needs front brakes to be able to perform properly?
What else is there that needs to be done, before it is able to perform at the engine's potential?
Will it ever be able to do this?

icsamerica

Ugggg.... this has gotten so old. Sorry I brought this up.

Shawn Stanford

See, I don't believe this is a supportable statement. How many 'no start' threads are in this forum?

Most of the 'side of the road' 928 problems I've personally seen have been engine related; and weird sh*t, to boot. The green wire is a notorious example, I've also had an alternator go south. Sure, it was a 30 year-old alternator, but that meant I couldn't nip down to O'Reilly's and get a new one (well, actually, I did: I put in a Chevy alternator). I saw two beautiful examples stop running at Camp 928 a couple weekends ago (admittedly, one for a clogged cat). Alex's well-maintained black car stopped running at Frenzy because the roll pin for the reluctor in the distributor fell out! Fuel distributors, computer modules, the list goes on.

And, yes: "...when done correctly", I get it. But none of this stuff is easy to get or cheap, and this forum is pretty much the only place in the world where there are people to tell you how to diagnose and fix it.

I'm not saying the 928's motor is bad, I'm saying it's old technology that gets more difficult to maintain by the day. Meanwhile, there are literally tens of thousands of modern, reliable motors out there trundling around in mundane pickups and SUVs, with a proven path that will allow them to revive a sleeping (or dead) Shark. It's a good solution, and from a 'purist' standpoint, no worse than the Audi motor in the 924 or the VR6-based motor in my Cayenne. (And I'm not a purist by any means. I love the shape of the car. I'd run it on a Tesla motor or a HF Predator if it would get me down the road.)

icsamerica

Well, the 6.0 convertibles aren't all that rare. It's the 1995 6.0 Coupes that are super rare. The car on ebay is super nice though but it's not a celebration . It has no celebration equipment except the wood **** and it's has the early 1995 sucky hydroboost brakes. The 1996 4.0 celebrations have a wood steering wheel, wood shift ****, flat faced celebrations wheels and vacuum brakes. I'd know becasue I'm present parting one out and all the celebration stuff sold in a NY minute.

SwayBar

I believe I read a Greg Brown 6.5L stroker motor costs $60,000+.

And even at that price, I'm not sure if the GB stroker can match the LS3 425hp since he told Randy V not to divulge his rwhp numbers.

Blagave

Yeah, I forgot that my stock 3.0 air cooled 911 motor was a $15,000 rebuild and a friend did the rebuild. I spent $30,000 on a 3.6 air cooled by Burnham Performance, so not surprised at the cost of a 928 rebuild.......parts are just so expensive.

You can buy a a E-rod LSA 550plus hp for just under $15k and you get a 2 year / 50,000 mile warranty.....lots of options for hp and cost.

SwayBar

Greg, are you aware he has aftermarket Wilwood 4-piston brakes on the car?

Based upon your comment, I'm guessing 'No'.

As for your chest-pounding regarding brakes:

At the long and fast Road America racetrack, Jean-Louis in a 275 rwhp Euro with stock single-piston brakes with Pagid Orange pads, did a best-of lap at 2:32.0, which is a very good time. He never ever had any brake problems whatsoever with fade, or stopping power with the stock single-piston brakes.

Now, this is at a track where there are 3-straights where the car is traveling at 150 mph at the brake points:

Turn 1 is a 75-mph corner.
Turn 5 is a 55-mph corner and its approach is downhill.
And finally, Canada Corner is 55-mph.

Tbose are big braking corners!

Next, he installed Big Reds,and guess what? He had zero problems with fade and stopping power, but could not improve on his 2:32.0.

Why was that? He was limited by horsepower, and not by braking power - despite upgrading from 1-piston stock brakes to 4-piston Big Reds, both with Pagid Orange pads.

Those little 1-piston calipers consistently , and reliably, hauled the car down from 150mph in three different places, lap after lap after lap.

So for you to say, that his LS3-engined car, equipped with aftermarket Wilwood 4-piston brakes, are insufficient, is jack-assery in its purest, most unadulterated form.

Congratulations Greg, against all odds, your mouth has outdone itself once again!