LS Engine!
Chronic Tool Dropper
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,506
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From: Bend, Oregon
Taking this to a step-back-and-think project model -- Buy a running car, like the red S4 5-speed from right by you Texas listed recently at $15k. Park it next to your '81 4.5l car with the blown engine. Drive the red car around a bit. Decide if it's worth doing all the cleaning and pretty-prep that you did on the '81. Drive the red car around a bit more. Keep looking at the LS conversion, talking with Tony about how much time talent patience and budget were consumed by his similar project. Drive the red car around a bit more.
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Consider how you can buy a running car for less than the cost of a refurb 4.5/4.7L engine. We are at the odd point in car model life where finding good used pieces costs more than a running example. The Renegade conversion, done well and with all the ancillary work, costs way more than a running example. That said, if you have a car that has had all the rest of the car maintained perfectly, and you don't mind the future collector value being affected, and you plan to drive the car to get the value out of it.... Then hybrid resto-mod route makes perfect sense. Still, I'd budget at least $25k and at least a year unless the conversion is a full-time passion. Then go drive the red car around a bit.
---
Consider how you can buy a running car for less than the cost of a refurb 4.5/4.7L engine. We are at the odd point in car model life where finding good used pieces costs more than a running example. The Renegade conversion, done well and with all the ancillary work, costs way more than a running example. That said, if you have a car that has had all the rest of the car maintained perfectly, and you don't mind the future collector value being affected, and you plan to drive the car to get the value out of it.... Then hybrid resto-mod route makes perfect sense. Still, I'd budget at least $25k and at least a year unless the conversion is a full-time passion. Then go drive the red car around a bit.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,475
Likes: 471
From: Earth
Taking this to a step-back-and-think project model -- Buy a running car, like the red S4 5-speed from right by you Texas listed recently at $15k. Park it next to your '81 4.5l car with the blown engine. Drive the red car around a bit. Decide if it's worth doing all the cleaning and pretty-prep that you did on the '81. Drive the red car around a bit more. Keep looking at the LS conversion, talking with Tony about how much time talent patience and budget were consumed by his similar project. Drive the red car around a bit more.
---
Consider how you can buy a running car for less than the cost of a refurb 4.5/4.7L engine. We are at the odd point in car model life where finding good used pieces costs more than a running example. The Renegade conversion, done well and with all the ancillary work, costs way more than a running example. That said, if you have a car that has had all the rest of the car maintained perfectly, and you don't mind the future collector value being affected, and you plan to drive the car to get the value out of it.... Then hybrid resto-mod route makes perfect sense. Still, I'd budget at least $25k and at least a year unless the conversion is a full-time passion. Then go drive the red car around a bit.
---
Consider how you can buy a running car for less than the cost of a refurb 4.5/4.7L engine. We are at the odd point in car model life where finding good used pieces costs more than a running example. The Renegade conversion, done well and with all the ancillary work, costs way more than a running example. That said, if you have a car that has had all the rest of the car maintained perfectly, and you don't mind the future collector value being affected, and you plan to drive the car to get the value out of it.... Then hybrid resto-mod route makes perfect sense. Still, I'd budget at least $25k and at least a year unless the conversion is a full-time passion. Then go drive the red car around a bit.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,739
Likes: 425
From: USA/Oregon
L92 ,, cheaper and 400+ out of the box, in my area its a 5500 dollar package with ECU/Harness/Pedal and what the vendor calls a refresh light, he opens it up checks for significant issues and puts it back together,, new head gaskets seals oilpan gasket etc.. The L92 is the Escalade motor.. and some Z71 trucks all aluminum.
But if you hang out on the LS forum,, youll see what guys that do it all on their own end up with cost-wise on Porsche swaps,, 15K out the door seems to be about average.. 17 to 20 if you can't do the work yourself. Significant wiring issues to make all the Porsche stuff work in the chassis ,, you have to turn the Porsche ECU into a piggy back if you want all the gages and body computers to do thier jobs. Model definitely affects difficulty..
I've built enough ground up race cars to know the last 10% takes 90% of the time and costs 2/3 the budget..
But if you hang out on the LS forum,, youll see what guys that do it all on their own end up with cost-wise on Porsche swaps,, 15K out the door seems to be about average.. 17 to 20 if you can't do the work yourself. Significant wiring issues to make all the Porsche stuff work in the chassis ,, you have to turn the Porsche ECU into a piggy back if you want all the gages and body computers to do thier jobs. Model definitely affects difficulty..
I've built enough ground up race cars to know the last 10% takes 90% of the time and costs 2/3 the budget..
Chronic Tool Dropper
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Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Bend, Oregon
Look at some of the conversion cars here, and [gently...] ask about the total investment in time and dollars. Include the tinkering- and brainstorming-hours, the hours spent trying to source or fabricate pieces that otherwise don't exist. Don't forget all the WYAIT time & $$, upgrades to $u$pen$ion and brakes$, plus all the tuning and driveability work after the nuts and bolts are tightened. My working examples include is that black car in Florida that's been a multi-year project, Tony's cars, even Sterling's car that started out as a "simple" vario-cam adaptation. These are all labor-of-love projects that would stretch most owner's patience and budgets well beyond breaking points.
A casual associate back in Pasadena received a windfall project bonus for something he was working on. He announced to the group that he was going to have a Lambo Gallardo for the years of work. That turned into a 1000cc BMW two-wheeler, the change left after his wife's house-upgrade program and taxes. Moral: Make Sure your budget agrees with hers, especially when it expands/explodes.
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 876
Likes: 159
From: around the corner
Yes, Just Peachy, Empty Shell and my car are expensive builds.....probably $100,000 plus if you pay a shop to build them. What I don't understand is that people have no problem dropping 100k plus for a 69 Camero with LS and all the bells and whistles, but if you mention Porsche 928 being built in the same manner, all of sudden it is crazy.
A "LS" engine is a perfect upgrade for the 928. The kits and support for the swap are a phone call away. The option of LS engine to Porsche drive train is a simple kit from Renegade....very affordable. If you want to step it up and spend more money, then get with Carl at 928 motorsports and install the corvette drive train. Just like all builds, there is different levels and costs.
All I can say to the naysayers out there, is the LS conversion cars are a blast to drive, super reliable, any shop can work on them and parts are endless and cheap.
DonaldBuswell.....do your homework and don't be afraid of the conversion, you will love the outcome.
A "LS" engine is a perfect upgrade for the 928. The kits and support for the swap are a phone call away. The option of LS engine to Porsche drive train is a simple kit from Renegade....very affordable. If you want to step it up and spend more money, then get with Carl at 928 motorsports and install the corvette drive train. Just like all builds, there is different levels and costs.
All I can say to the naysayers out there, is the LS conversion cars are a blast to drive, super reliable, any shop can work on them and parts are endless and cheap.
DonaldBuswell.....do your homework and don't be afraid of the conversion, you will love the outcome.
Last edited by Blagave; Jun 23, 2019 at 02:43 PM.
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Joe Kucinski
Developer
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,005
Likes: 64
From: Horicon, WI
I think you contacted us to ask if we would bore just one cylinder and put in a piston. If it wasn't you, then I have another one in my voicemail asking the same question.
My answer is "No Thank You". The end result of just over-boring and replacing one cylinder is an engine inherently out of balance. Seven pistons of similar sizes, and one that is heavier than all the rest by a good margin. You can try to balance that at the crank, but its hard to take out the harmonic vibrations it will cause even if you do. I just am not a fan. Then consider 7 cylinders with old clearances and rings, and one cylinder that's tighter than all the rest with new rings. No thank you. I'm sure you can find a shop to do it, but I don't recommend it.
Maybe I'm just getting old and fussy, but I like to replace pistons in matching sets of 8 at a time.
My answer is "No Thank You". The end result of just over-boring and replacing one cylinder is an engine inherently out of balance. Seven pistons of similar sizes, and one that is heavier than all the rest by a good margin. You can try to balance that at the crank, but its hard to take out the harmonic vibrations it will cause even if you do. I just am not a fan. Then consider 7 cylinders with old clearances and rings, and one cylinder that's tighter than all the rest with new rings. No thank you. I'm sure you can find a shop to do it, but I don't recommend it.
Maybe I'm just getting old and fussy, but I like to replace pistons in matching sets of 8 at a time.
Last edited by Carl Fausett; Jun 21, 2019 at 05:46 PM.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 630
Likes: 15
From: Brisbane, Australia.
My 1981 4.5l is toast. Scarring in one cylinder wall, took it to a machine shop and they did not even want to touch it. Called Roger and he said if an oversize piston is available from Porsche they are about $500.00 each. This engine then immediately became scrap. So...I'm not going to mess with a Porsche engine unless I find a 4.5 or 4.7 for free that runs. Chevy LS motor is calling. So, I'm interested in reading all the Chevy engine installations in the 928 - any help here to steer me towards those threads?
Used a Renegade Hybrid kit - no issues.
Local powerboat engine builder produced a 485 crank HP engine.
Jimmy took me for a run on his roller coaster mountain back road.
I think my fingerprints are still in the centre console and dash. LOL
https://members.rennlist.com/1jim928/
Pro
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 630
Likes: 15
From: Brisbane, Australia.
My 1981 4.5l is toast. Scarring in one cylinder wall, took it to a machine shop and they did not even want to touch it. Called Roger and he said if an oversize piston is available from Porsche they are about $500.00 each. This engine then immediately became scrap. So...I'm not going to mess with a Porsche engine unless I find a 4.5 or 4.7 for free that runs. Chevy LS motor is calling. So, I'm interested in reading all the Chevy engine installations in the 928 - any help here to steer me towards those threads?
Dynoed at 800HP (Can't find chart atm. Grrr).
Charles is an experienced (and hands-on) mechanical engineer, so his approach is only for the hard-core committed.
http://www.haultech.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=586
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 470
Likes: 82
From: Cibolo, TX
I like Eric's suggestion, which I will run to ground. I appreciate the time it takes to re engineer something, then, if successful, you have an aberition, nothing is proper, One lifter is locked up from rust, which I think I will retain the Porsche engine in a Porsche car, If I want a Chevy, my rich gf has a Corvette! lol And I did not expect this engine to be pristine.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 470
Likes: 82
From: Cibolo, TX
I like easy access!
I actually like challenges.
Of course, a mess.
My buddy Mike has been after me for months to tear this motor apart, as he has 2x 944s. I always refused bc I wanted to do it and place things in proper bags and boxes, etc. Your buddy never does, just leaves a pile.
This really disturbs me, I would never do this, as they come out, they get layed down nicely and the rod caps and bolts and nuts and bearings goes back together as one unit. I now know with surety that my buddy will NOT assist in anything else in this manner!
