John D.

Well said in many ways.. My thanks for that...

But too - without the 928 Community - as it "was" and "as it is" - really isn't it the backbone of Rennlist? Here is my perspective from my glasses, as it were...

When we set up this little slice of the Internet - called "PorscheList"(1998/1999) - then "Rennlist" in later 1999 - there were several mailing lists and forums that were the backbone of the community. The 928 Community was - and still is - the foundation upon which this community was built. Oh sure - maybe those heyday times are gone - supplanted with the newest Porsche Forums here that gets 16 gazillion views a day which crazy posts and users - but?

Does that really matter? This community was built on what the 928 - 993 - 914 - 924 - 944 - 951 - 911 - 964 community was all about.

In my world - I don't see the Rennlist 928 Forum having to change to meet their standards? Rather - I see Rennlist meeting the standards by which this site and community was founded - which is and was the original 928 - 993 - 914 - 924 - 944 - 951 - 911 - 964 communities?

Same cold water - just from a different bucket I suspect..

Anyway - my thanks and absolutely no offense taken!

John D.

worf928

You know, I thought I'd archived the original "Sport Seats with extra lateral support!!!!" bug. But, alas, no...


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From: Philip Adamson <philip@outsource.co.nz>
To: 'Leonard Laub' <leonard@visionthree.com>
Subject: RE: 928 Digest for 7 Nov 1997

It's nice to know you think so highly of Kiwis, Leonard. I think Andy's problem
is simply that he has a big box of apostrophes to use up and he's slipping them
in whenever he feels he can get away with it. (And did he mention that they are
sports apostrophes with the extra lateral support?)

John D.

BAWWWW HAHAHA!!!!!

Well done!!!!!

I got nuttin' ' ' '

John D.

docmirror

Understand, I don't fault IB from monetizing rennlist. I agree that the 928 subforum plays a big part in the start of rennlist, and also the other vintage makes are part of the spine of this community. The OP got my attention, and the attention of people here who care. But - if there's anything to be done about the monetization side of this, we need to hit people where it hurts. Which would mean a vacuum of maybe half, or 2/3 of paid membership before IB would take notice. If/when advertisers call up the head of marketing and say "WTF! I used to reach xx,000 members, now I'm only reaching y,000 members and guests!? What did you do, and whatever it was undo it, or I am gone, gone, gone." Until that phone call is made, IB will continue the ads, and spam unabated. IB doesn't care about the user experience. IB doesn't care if a page takes 3 seconds to load. IB doesn't care if a new 928 owner gets his answer about TBF. They care about $$$$, and only $$$$. It's the corp way.

worf928

I had a conversation over PM with an IB IT staff member. Long story short, IB HQ doesn’t GAF about membership fees. They are not interested in providing a service to users who pay for that service and expect, in return, some quality of service.

It’s the ‘standard internet model’ where the users are not the customers. To get that model to change you need people willing to pay a non-trivial subscription fee. The problem is free-loaders and that human nature makes free-loading a minimum energy state for the population as a whole.

John D.

I read your post - and re-read it once again. And for that?

There is not a single characterization I could disagree with.

Honestly? As Dr Bob and Hacker knows - I'm still fighting all this, hoping for a light at the end of the tunnel. But for that, too....

I don't know what the outcome will be. All I know is "what it is" is wrong in its present state...

And too - I was accused of "caring too much" in a positive way of being very passionate, still - about this site and community.

Rennlist wasn't and isn't "my" creation. Rather - it's "your" creation.

I just "paved the roads".

You and others decided to drive on them.

Let's see where this goes. But know, in your post above?

I can't argue with a single point you make - as much as I wish I could....

My thanks and best always,

John D.

John D.

That would most probably be correct.... In fact, when we were discussing "transferring" the site - Rennlist Members were something that was a "foreign idea" to them. I made them keep on with Membership cards, welcome letters, Rennlist Stickers and all the stuff Jen & I used to do out of our home each evening - as folks would get a membership card, welcome letter and such in the mail signed by Jen and myself. Actually - I never asked if all that was being held to?

I'm guessing those days are long gone, nowadays....

John D.

worf928

IB puts *zero* effort into harvesting continuing revenue (or goodwill) from paying members. They don't even have a perl^h^h^h^hpython script to automatically send out requests for renewal a few tens of days in advance of membership term lapse. I've heard whispers from some little birds that the code having to do with membership is in ... umm, poor shape and that folks are scared to touch it.

Randy V

Good to see you here, JD!

It was an honor to help you develop the forums through the founding dedicated 928 community.

Perhaps you can ask Bob about his issues he has created with an old dawg. Would appreciate a PM.

Thanks!

John D.

Howdy RV and Dave.!

Always great to catch up RV - and there were some fun - yet challenging?! - times way back when/then for sure! Also...

Dave - to be fair, IB did a better than excellent job in transitioning Rennlist.. I mean that. Imagine you are purchasing a "Forum" and rather - you end up with a Forum and 17 (I think there were seventeen?) SLDs running on a mix of servers/software and OS underpinnings. And probably not a single line of unmodified (nor documented!) code in all of it - as like most who write code - documentation was never my strong suit... . So, I can imagine what you heard is probably right - and I can totally appreciate as to why...

And too - I can add this... When I look at Rennlist along with some of us "old timers" - it has changed and continues to grow and evolve. Do I agree with all the changes and how things are done? Nope And I'm pretty vocal about them as are many of you are as well... (I know the Ads in Notices is killing me too - but probably not worth the battle).

But - the good news in that comment is that we are still here, on Rennlist - debating all this. And that is to the credit of all of us - and yes, too and in no small way - Internet Brands.

Have a great day - and my best to all you folks always,

John D.

Wisconsin Joe

Well, for some of us (including me) the benefits of paid membership simply aren't worth it.

Unlimited pics would be nice. Unlimited PMs too.

Access to OT and 'members only' ads?
The ability to post 'for sale' threads?

Sorry. Not interested.

I understand fully that they offer free 'usership' because I become an 'ad member'. The adage 'when you get something for free, you are the product' is absolutely true.
I'm ok with that.

The benefit I get is the community. Dave (worf), Sean, Stan, Greg, and the other 'pros'; Roger, Mark, Carl, Constantine, Hans and the other 'vendors', Seth, Nate, Hoi, and all the other 'addicts' (fools, ding-a-lings, usual suspects, choose your label). Note: This list is very limited To individually name all the folks I have gotten assistance and guidance from would make for a VERY long list.

It's those folks and their willingness to share & help is what makes this such a great place. And IB has very little to do with that.

Red Flash

Well, I am flattered that this thread which could have been taken as "trolling" pulled up such reputable names. And, also, nice to meet you, John!

Doc Mirror is probably right, we got folded into a corporate world for which we represent a spec of intergalactic dust.

Thanks for listening. In any case, it makes me feel better. :-)

worf928

Just be clear, I too think IB succeeded with the transition of rennlist. The point of that last post was to underscore that dues from paying members are not a priority. If I was King of IB and if subscription revenue was a priority you can bet that refactoring the code to support harvesting subscription dues would be at the top of my list of what code on which to put brains. For the last several years IB has been putting resources into evolving - as close as possible - a single uniform code base across its forums and to provide a more uniform browser experience across the various browser flavors and viewing platforms (with, of course, mobile at the top of that list.) I can't argue with that decision. I do, though, wonder if the incremental expense of treating paying members a bit 'more right' and investing in the infrastructure to harvest that subscription revenue might be accretive to profit. The answer to that depends upon data which is not available to me.

Also, to be fair, IB has been doing a better job of feature rollouts and their response time for 'down' issues has gotten better since the nadir of the member webs DNS debacle a couple of years ago (the discussion thread of which contains posts on my part that I'm not particularly proud of...)

They've also had to content with changes in regulations that require work (GPDR etc.)

But as of late, they seem to be slipping back to a lower QoS. Hopefully this is due to concentrating resources on preparing their forums for the various threatening internet regulations that are on the horizon.

John D.

Hey Dave (and all ,

I read your post yesterday and spent some time thinking about what you wrote above - as I think, you are probably most correct. I, too - would think a tremendous "asset" of the site are those in the community who help sponsor the site through private membership dues? Certainly goodwill notwithstanding and a larger part of that dynamic - but too, without knowing IB's financial model, would consider those dues as an annuity, and something that could be planned on - or for? In my world, I would take that over having to generate "new Sponsorship revenue" or on the back-end, look for "customers" for our raw data/demographics where it's pennies per GB? I say that - and I also understand this...

I think the dynamics of Membership have also changed? Remember - when I developed Memberships back in 1999 onwards - folks did receive tangible benefits - unlimited e-mail at their own "rennlist.com" account, free member websites, substantial discounts from Site Sponsors, discounts from many P'Car dealers, unlimited photo uploads, yada, yada, yada, etc... Those things simply aren't in what I suspect are the IB Business model/plan? Based on what we see - it's something entirely different, which could explain why the "Membership" isn't a top priority - nor any priority?

And yes - I do think that IB is working hard at the backend in all the areas you mentioned - and trying to improve the "Rennlist Experience" in line with their other Internet properties - and too - believe they also are trying to prepare for the regulated future not too far off in the distance - certainly in terms data & personal privacy and disclosure and all the safeguards and checkpoints that are looming around that corner. So, yep - I agree - that might explain parts as well - and at the same time, their QoS does go through peaks and valleys..

Anyway - yep - I do recall many of the threads when the Member sites "went off line" - and know that many had less than kind words. I do the same - but, in private forums/discussions rather than publicly. And I too - say things I'm not proud of in those areas, but feel compelled to make the case as strongly as I can for what I feel is for the betterment of this site and community. I know a few of the Mods on Rennlist have tried to talk me off that cliff before jumping (and a few others try to push me over?! ) - but, well - that's just me. And apparently - just like you and many others....

And OH!!! - to Red Flash (John) - my thanks for the post and your comeback yesterday as well!! But please, don't confuse me with any "reputable" person - I'm a scalawag of the worst sort! Just ask anyone I've ever crossed swords with, or banned, from the site over the past couple of decades..??!

Best to all for a great week!

John D.

GT6ixer

Maybe I just have dumb luck. But I have been able to read, post and upload pictures on my PC, my iPad (iPad 2 Air) and my smartphones (Samsung, Google Pixel, etc) with not much issue at all since I've been a member. There is one small ad banner up top but other than that I get zero ads and I am not running any ad blockers. Now if I go in without logging in, then it's like an ad pop-up version of a Jackson Pollock painting.