buccicone

After 60 miles the new oil pump seal failed. Checked with Roger if there were any issues and there are none. As far as I know I didn't screw up the installation. Used assembly lube on the seal and oil pump shaft. It really got chewed up. The thin washer closest to the pump was there. I did remove the seal spring that was in picture #2. The seal was seated flush to the oil pump housing. I've done this before. Any suggestions?

Mrmerlin

based on what happened and the first picture,
the seal was not flush,
see the top edge.
It appears to be be under the face of the pump thus its at an angle, as compared to the lower edge of the seal

Since the inner seal area came out it also appears that the sealing area was pushed out of place when the shaft went through.
Any chance you left the 1 MM spacer washer on while putting in the shaft?

NOTE if you are installing the steel gear then the 1 MM washer is deleted its only used with the aluminum gear.
NOTE the aluminum gear was superseded to the steel version, as it was found to crack.

On the last picture the seal wall is deformed on the left side this needs to be made flush again a jewelers file will make it so.
also on the right side the seal wall appears to have a part of the sealing surface gouged out thats not good.
It appears that some heavy handed seal removal techniques were used to extract the old seal.
rework will be required to fix the sealing surface of the new radial seal.

When fitting the gears they should have the dots in the gear faces facing the engine block.

I use STP oil treatment on the shaft and the sealing lip and coat the gears of the pump and turn it before installing it,
I use DC 111 on the pump O rings

buccicone

Actually the picture is a better visual than with my eyes. The flushness of the seal was my first thought of what happened. Thanks Stan.

GregBBRD

If you install the seal into the pump body, before the shaft of the oil pump gear is installed, the relatively square end of the shaft can/will turn an edge of the seal inside out.

Super common and easy to not see, when it happens.

Porsche makes a set of special tools (and installs the seal after the entire pump is installed on the engine), for a reason.

Those burrs on the chamfer of the oil pump body (where the seal has to slide in) aren't going to help, either.

buccicone

rjtw

Not to hijack this thread, but I JUST pulled my oil pump off the block. I have a new shaft seal, but my old one isn't leaking. It's original 1983. I could just change the pump body seal and the three bolt o-ring seals. Thoughts from the experts on whether I should change the shaft seal vs leave the original?

No special tools here but it's clear that mounting square and flush is critical. Perhaps a simple tool could be devised from hollow tubing of the appropriate diameter to aid installation of the shaft once the seal is in place to avoid lip rollover? STP standing by!

GregBBRD

Installing the seal once the shaft is in place makes "folding" the lip even easier, without the special tool.

I, personally, never use the special tool. I prefer to install the seal and get it square in the bore of the pump, with the oil pump in my hand. I then lube the edge of the seal and the shaft of the pump and "twist" the shaft of the gear once it reaches the seal. I then inspect the seal to make sure the inner lip did not "invert"....it's obvious to see the problem, with close inspection.

GregBBRD

35 year old seal? No question, replace it while you are there. See instructions above for a technique.

rjtw

Thanks Greg, and your how-to makes perfect sense.

GregBBRD

BTW.....the factory oil pump tools are "T4", which is German for "We don't have any more and we have zero plans on making them again".

I'd never even seen one of the factory installation tools until Rob Edwards brought one over, when we were assembling one of his engines.

........"What the heck is that for?"

rjtw

I'm going to hijack the thread again, while on the subject of seals. I ALSO am planning to replace the crank seal while I'm here, again still original. I plan to use the PVC-pipe or pill-bottle method of installing the seal, again ensuring it's square and flush. The OD of the crank seal is just under 3.4". Greg, do you have any further words of how-to wisdom for installing the crank seal? Some old and conflicting info here: https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...placement.html THANKS!

GregBBRD

I use the factory installation tool, which has it's own set of "issues".

The front crankshaft seals do not seem to have a chronic leakage issue, like flywheel seals.

Make sure the "slot" in the aluminum (which is used for removal of the old seal) doesn't have any sharp edges sticking up from the removal process of the old seal. (Usually a screwdriver and a hammer.) You can deburr that edge with a small knife, if necessary. The crankshaft has a large seal entry ramp on it, for the seal, so it's pretty difficult to "fold" the edge of the seal or have the edge deform and allow the inner spring to come off (this is common on the flywheel side.) The current seals I've been using seem to go in "pretty loose", but I've had no issues with them coming back out.

Lube it up (I use Wurth HSS on the OD of all seals and o-rings and a thin layer of Porsche factory high pressure grease on the sealing lip), get it square at the original depth, and you will be fine.

rjtw

Thank you!

buccicone

Re-did the oil pump seal. At first on the engine. Used a mirror and saw just this: The inside of the seal turned inside out somewhat and could actually see the seal spring. Took the pump out to the bench and removed the shaft and reset so it was not inside out. Oil leak appears to be gone after 22 mile run. Thanks for the info guys. Greg, did you get my email?

GregBBRD

Didn't see it, yet.

Did you send it to my "frequently read" email (GregBBRD@aol.com.)

At any rate, because of my complete frankness and a complete lack of any sort of a filter, I frequently **** people off, even when I'm just trying to help.....

I'll apologize up front.

I'm sorry....I've been this way, my entire life.