Tony

No but... is working.

porshhhh951

did that link to that video work??

Tony

Ok, NOW THIS IS A NEW TANGENT to me!
So this mysterious coating, uh...TIN, on the pistons is only there to allow a smooth break in....after which the need for its presence is minor and it wears away with no ill efect??

Anyone have any input on that?

Is the alusil that much harder than say a "regular" alloy block bore? I assume so. Is that the issue with the wear on the skirt and the need to protect it for break in?


If i recall Mahle had some sort of test being ran on a 968 last fall. Anyone here news on that?

slate blue

With respect to detonation, I think if you used block cement and deck plates, like SG did and then used Nicasil that would be a good compromise. My friend who knows a bit about boosted motors tells me that alloy conrods (he makes them himself, uses plenty of them too) are an important part of protection against detonation. He also says that the piston would probably break a ring land before the block mentioned above would crack. They use the alloys rods to protect the crank and lessen the load on the reciprocating assembly.

Lagavulin

Not when you’re ranting and foaming at the mouth, your typical mode of communication.

That is SO funny! But, it is always prudent to ‘consider the source’. Since you ‘forgot’, go back and read the post I made in your rant when you finally posted your numbers.

I think we’re finally making progress and getting to the root cause of your socially unbecoming behavior. The question is, can you do something about it, and more importantly, stop inflicting yourself upon us and making us suffer too?

Nobody has said that. Since you’re so preoccupied with running your own ‘admittedly big mouth’(..with virtually nothing constructive to say at that), you do not listen to others.

I hate to admit it and am quite surprised, but you finally hit the nail on the head for once. I agree with you, and summarize that someone who conducts themselves in such a manner:

9 times out of 10 you are wrong.

You just don’t get it and refuse to listen. If my car had 8 psi at 3000 RPM, sure it would have more horsepower at that point, but it’s contribution would only be a bigger rear tire bill and lost momentum because I’ll be bouncing off the rev limiter even more than I am now.

You are accustomed to driving only your car which puts out considerably less horsepower everywhere, and thus needs all this low-end you keep harping about. However, you have absolutely no idea what it’s like to drive a 32v forced induction car, and likewise, know it’s real power characteristics.

For the last time, the stronger an engine is power-wise, going after MORE low-end is NOT NECESSARY! Look and compare ANY of the dyno charts.

Along those lines, I am in the process of attenuating my low-end power production, and moving it higher in the RPM band where I’ll be hooked up better to utilize it; details at 11.

In principle only, you are correct. However, for the more powerful engines, it’s a principle to be cognizant of and AVOID due to the above mentioned reasons.

To sum up, given the nature of the 32v 928 engine, there is no need to implement the much greater complexity of any turbo installation in the name of filling a need that’s not really there.

On the other hand, would it be something cool if done? Absolutely! As most already know, one already exists, and the next issue of ‘928 Forum Magazine’ should have the story of the Seattle Twin Turbo 1987 S4, complete with dyno chart.

‘Do tell’ what? Last time you used that term you had problems doing a simple horsepower gain percentage, and now you want me explain to you how to do Calculus? 'Trust me', you won't understand that, either.

All you have to do is take a hard look in the mirror, and maybe it will; but unfortunately I doubt it.


That was awesome, nice footage! Do you have a link to your car’s specs? Let me know when the site is back up!

Food-for-thought though, if somehow your insurance agent saw your face on film during some street-missions deep in enemy territory, they will not be pleased. There has been talk on other boards of that very thing happening with understandably negative results. Just a heads-up and something to consider.

It’s a Vortech V-2 SQ (Super Quiet), so it’s pretty stealthy.

http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/products/units/

Contact Tim Murphy if Pops is serious about supercharging his car: tmurphy@new.rr.com.

John..

Lag, why don't you do us all a BIG favor and post some performance numbers for your super-car. That is all I ask, no bickering, no excuses, no more personal attacks... just post some real numbers like Andy has. Most certainly you can go out and purchase a $140.00 G-Tech or borrow one and find a place to do the measurements. I'll even mail you mine if you want to borrow it.

My turbo in a weak state of tune (before rebuild) on just 8.5 lbs ran down a 1/4 mile at over 113 MPH on 225 street tires. There is no doubt that as of today the straight line performance is substantially better, as should your numbers be, so hop to it and get us some data to chew on. Until then don't make assumptions on your performance figures.

bcdavis

And guess what?

When the Devek car posts 0-60 numbers, or Lag posts a 1/4 mile time,
and we compare them to Tim, GoRideSno, etc, I bet there won't be
a hell of a lot of difference. Tires, weight, and a lot of other factors
all come into play.

We are all arguing about minor differences in efficiency, or how much difference certain manifolds make, or heat in the engine compartment, etc...

I seriously doubt it will make that much of a huge difference.

I bet driver skill will play a much larger role in street and track performance.
All this arguing over efficiency, or methods, will be inconsequential...

Maybe we should be arguing over who has the stickiest tires.
Because that is probably a more important factor in performance numbers on a high HP car.

I think the only thing we should be comparing our cars to, is our competition...
Who has a 928 that can beat a Viper?
A 800hp Supra?
A 16psi 951?
Z06?
Audi A8?
BMW Z8?
Ferarri?

That's why I think John's car is not really worth discussing.
It's cool, but not in the 500-1000hp range.
I want to know who is really pushing the envelope,
not people who are just running a stroker, or just running 8psi, etc...

John's car is a GREAT street car.
Great for a 4.5 liter block.
Probably a lot of fun.

But he shouldn't really even be taking part in discussions about supercars,
and power monsters, when there are not the numbers to back it up...

It's like me going on and on about how awesome my headers are, and how much power they make over stock, and how my engine is still reliable, etc... No one cares about my slight increase in horsepower, because it is not worth mentioning. I enjoy my car, but I am not going to go on and on about how great it is, or how amazing the technology is, or how much better it is that other people's cars.

If you want to talk about how great your car is, be prepared to race, or compare dyno numbers, timeslips, etc...

Otherwise just consider your car your own little toy, and enjoy it for what it is.

I will *not* be bragging to people about how efficient and powerful my car is, unless I plan on backing it up...

So if Lag has not posted numbers, I say he should post them, just like Devek, and tell
everyone to kiss his a$$, and tell them to beat the numbers, or stop talking about turbo
efficiency, etc... Or post a 1/4 mile time. Show how fast the car can accelerate...
Maybe everyone with these cars should do a Gtech from 0-150...
If they can't meet and actually race...

People do need to back up the things they say.
Or don't get bent out of shape when people ask you to prove what you say.

John's been posting on and on about the benefits of turbos.
I don't see the numbers to prove that it is more powerful that supercharging.
Maybe soon, but not yet.

And the day a turbo car puts down more impressive numbers, then I would
place the challenge to the MURPH guys, to prove John wrong, and prove
that your cars, can beat the numbers of the twin turbo car from PacNW...

As it stands, MURPH kits are very powerful, and inexpensive.

John's car is from a different era, different category, etc...
It is unique, cool, etc, but not in direct competition.

Lagavulin

A reasonable request, and I cannot agree more!

Holy crap, did I just agree with John? By the way, I appreciate the offer on the G-Tech.

In the meantime, until I get those numbers, beating out the YZF-R1 twice should give one an idea of what kind of performance the car is capable of. Man, I am so glad I've got witnesses to the event; I admit I'd have a hard time believing it if I heard the story from an independent source.

This spring we are all going racing. First up is SpeedSeekers at Road America: http://www.speedseekers.com

After that, it will be 1/4 mile times at a real track with time-slips. One issue is see though is that officials usually boot you off the track if one goes 11.xx seconds and have no roll bar. Oh well, we'll go and see what happens.

Until then, there's too much salt on the roads, and I don't think any of the cars will come out of the garage until mid-March at the earliest.

Come on, that's part of the fun!

And I'll start off by saying that 11's should be easy to do. The big question is where in the 11's. As BC stated, driver skill (..or lack thereof in my case) will be the determining factor.

Jim bailey - 928 International

LAG / MURF..."And I'll start off by saying that 11's should be easy to do." ...........................NOW that is FUNNY !! Just learning how to start on a tree and not red light or be a second late , smoking the street tires , making the shifts or burning up your clutch ............ Plan on buying some DOT drag tires just to get reasonable traction ..... Drag racing even though I do not think very highly of it ; is not as easy as one might think .

bcdavis

I TOTALLY hope we have 928 race meetings, where people can battle on the track...
People talk and talk and talk, when it comes to power, and racing...
Talk is cheap. I want to see who is faster...
I want the 928 community to have cars that can beat the new exotics.
For half or a quarter the money those new exotics cost.
I want to prove that the 928 is deserving of respect.

Why do they kick you off the track with 11's, when you can drag race a bike at the track, in the 10's, and have no protection to speak of, other than a helmet? They have bike nights here. I wonder why there is a double standard? Anyhow, a roll bar is not that horribly expensive, and if you end up wanting to do more racing, it would be a good addition to the car...

And yes, tires, air pressure, and skill at launching, can all make huge differences in your times.
Reaction time as well!

Regardless I am all for Marc's race challenge...
And John's.
I think people need to put up, or shut up.
Only the winner gets to brag.

The rest of the discussions should be just casual advice to other people
who are building engines, etc...

I hate how every thread on engine building, or supercharging, ends up in a pissing match.
I think the sharing of information gets lost in the chest beating.
If you want to declare your engine better than someone else's,
or declare it stronger, better, or faster, then put you money where
your mouth is, and prove it!

Otherwise, keep it civil!

Tony

Yup, see the title of the thread.

thanks to those gave an "on target" response.

BC

Tony - There is a new thead over on the 951 board. A guy Mike coated a bunch of stuff, including the pistons.

porshhhh951

Thanks for the props. I got alot of other racing vids. That was the only one where you could see me while I was talking. That ls1 guy didn't even tell me all of his mods...lol. typical. We raced like 4 times. I was pulling on him pretty steadily ever time. The race that you saw was with me starting in second gear. I had some races with me in first gear and I pull a little more. I normally don't race from first ever though because of the wheel spin. Even in second gear with me brake boosting I break the tires loose. I get a little wheel spin shifting to 3rd. and by 4th I am usually okay. I need dr's pretty badly. Thanks for the tip on the insurance thing. I don't know how much of a problem it would be though since its done through my father's side car buisness.

Lagavulin

Yeah Jim, I agree with you, but I don't think it's THAT funny!

The reason I said it should be 'easy' is that completely stock Z06's running on their original street tires can do low 12's all day long, and that's with 350 rwhp. Then there's the special case of an exceptional Z06 pilot who does 11.6's.

So I figure if those 'regular' guys can do low 12's, then all else being equal, a car with 163 additional rwhp should be able to do at least 11.99, and why I speculated '11's' should be doable. In that light it doesn't seem to me all that unreasonable, but we'll all find out in 3 or 4 months, and we can all laugh (..you guys) or cry (..me) at the results! This first time out I plan on running my street tires since that's representative of my hardware while out prowling the streets.

I'm sorry Tony...

Tony

eh...geez...you know these threads, just par for the course!