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Last year I was watching a Porsche documentary called "911 Reloaded". Some of you may have seen it. In it there was a Porsche Museum Historian, Dieter Landenberger, that was interviewed. For a long time I've had some questions about the genesis of the 928 so I decided to email him. Below are the responses that I received.
Interesting feedback from the Porsche Museum. One that does agree with the first chapters of Projekt 928 and the narrative of the 928 being initially conceived in the earl 70's as replacement for the 911. I have written Mr. Benken back asking if the archives have any information on why Porsche felt that replacing the 911, a light weight sports car, with the 928, a heavier GT car, was the correct business decision? I mean they couldn't have thought that their loyal base of 911 customers would just be happy with switching over to such a different platform. No way I believe that. There had to be some discussion of at least developing a front engined light weight sports car the was up market like the 911. Obviously they introduced the 924, but that was an attempt to make an entry level Porsche, not a 911 substitute.
Okay, let's be honest here. The looks of the 928 is so polarizing, you either love them, or hate them. Most people I know simply do not like how the 928 looks, it's way too wide, thus has a fat waist, and as a result, has no curves. It's a slab-sided car.
If the 928 was designed to look half as good as the aforementioned 991 with all its sexy curves, the 928 would still be in production. The real beef about the 928 is its looks, not the location of the engine.
With all that said, I have an S4 5-speed, a GT, and a 911/993, and EVERYBODY loves the 993 with all its curves. Most are polite about how the 928 looks just to be nice, but all gush about the looks of the 993.
That has been my experience at least, as an owner of both.
Okay, let's be honest here. The looks of the 928 is so polarizing, you either love them, or hate them. Most people I know simply do not like how the 928 looks, it's way too wide, thus has a fat waist, and as a result, has no curves. It's a slab-sided car.
If the 928 was designed to look half as good as the aforementioned 991 with all its sexy curves, the 928 would still be in production. The real beef about the 928 is its looks, not the location of the engine.
With all that said, I have an S4 5-speed, a GT, and a 911/993, and EVERYBODY loves the 993 with all its curves. Most are polite about how the 928 looks just to be nice, but all gush about the looks of the 993.
That has been my experience at least, as an owner of both.
Interesting perspective, as I have always felt the 911 (especially the 991) looks far more slab sided than the 928 does. The 928 looks positively svelt next to the comparatively ill-proportioned 991 (fenders are too high, side profile is too symmetrical, rear end doesn’t curve in toward the bottom, etc). Also, just something about the 991 looks much more effeminate than the 928, at least in my eyes. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
...the aforementioned 991 with all its sexy curves...
Personally, I don't care for the 991. I think Porsche has shrunk that distinctive, high greenhouse too much, and the car now looks kind of bloated below the belt line. Like a hardtop 356 Speedster blown up to 5/4s proportions.
My favorite 911 is probably the 996, followed by the early 911s. I'm not a fan of the 993 at all; it feels like a poor update of the original 60s design. Sort of like Porsche knew what they were going to have to bring the car into the 21st century, but were resisting as long as possible. Considering the company's financial straights at the time, that's probably the case.
But, ultimately, the point isn't that one car is better than the other - or that one car is better than all the others, as the article contends. It's that none but one of these cars was intended to replace the 911. It didn't, but it kind of did: the 911 underwent two major redesigns between 1978 and 1995, and the 928 got incremental updates. Furman was essentially correct: The 911 as he knew it in the mid-70s couldn't keep the company afloat, nor could the car survive on its own; it needed significant work to remain competitive and stablemates to keep to company solvent.
And, again, so many miss the major part of the decision to design the 928.
Porsche did NOT want to replace the 911. It was their identity.
They did, however, greatly fear the very realistic possibility that they would be unable to sell the 911 in the US. Pollution laws were becoming very restrictive. And air cooled engines are a pain to make meet requirements.
Also, Ralph Nader did a hell of a job getting Chevy to drop the Corvair. Rear engined cars have some handling peculiarities that the 'untrained idiots' out there simply can't cope with. The VW Beetle and the 911 were also on his "Unsafe At Any Speed" list.
There were proposed safety laws (that never passed) that would have banned rear engined cars.
Porsche saw the 'writing on the wall' and didn't want to be shut out of the US market. So they designed a car that would be able to be sold. And in the process, designed a very nice, capable, GT.
After a pretty extended history with the 356 and 911 cars, and now the 928 for the last 20+ years, I can safely say that the cars are totally different. The commonality of the target audience is the ability to afford them.
I dashed out this morning and left the stack of unread Panoramas on the desk. So I didn't get a look at the full article. The discussion is resurrected periodically, usually by someone who has a flair for writing and perhaps a more contemporary view of the history of the company and the cars. "Modern" historians weren't there for the 914, 924 and 944 series that saved the company at a time when 911 sales were down into the few-thousands a year worldwide. Looking at current sales numbers, it's the low-end Macan (a rebadged and upgraded VW Tiguan/Audi Q-something) that's leading the charts. The Cayenne did that too, as a sporty VW Toureg/Audi Q7, carrying the company's destiny. The number of actual 911 variants sold now is a fraction of the unit volume, but is maybe higher margin due to its history and market appeal. The 911 may be the pinnacle of Porsche performance in the retail market. But... It won't be long before we see the backmotor 911 line morph into a mid-engine. A Cayman with the same running gear is certainly a better race car. For road cars we'll see more hybrid-electric versions because the market demands them. Wii any of these trace their development roots to 1964 Project 901 that became the 911? Park one of the current road cars next to one and see.
I happen to like the 928 because it isn't nearly as much work to drive it briskly, relative to the same-period 911. Would I like to have a current 911 in the garage? Sure. Folks in our family group here who have done that will be quick to tell you that they are different cars. There are plenty of times when I think a Panamera would be an interesting replacement, or a [pick your AMG variant], and as often think a recent Audi S8 would be perfect. These are all engineering tour de forces, as -was- the 928. But times and tastes change, and the 911 family has managed to stay near the front of performance sports car tastes for some folks even as it evolves to a size and shape that are amazingly similar to the original 928. Don't discount any of the models or variants that brought the company to where it is now, with engineering, styling, and the financial contributions that made it possible for Porsche to continue to sell 911 road cars. Without them, Porsche would be in the history books right after Pope.
If you want to see 928 features in Pano or any other mag, write and submit them. That was the straight-from-Pete-Stout recommendation when he was holding the reins, and it's still true. Don't test the waters here with stuff you might submit, as they can only take original stuff. Propose it, present it, and it stands a chance of seeing publication.
Good points by all.
I just don’t know what point it serves to adulate 911 owners and emasculate all other model owners. Which is the inference when you use words like “pretender” in capital letters right?
Surely is it not in the interest of PCA, and this is their official platform.
Hell, I even took umbrage to phases like “the so called Weisach Axle” that the author mentions. But then again I’m just doing this guy’s bidding at the end of day, by talking about it and him.
And yes, I miss Pete Stout.
I get 000 delivered, but I enjoyed Pano more when he was there.
100% AGREE W/THIS .... especially the number of engineers/scientists that own the 928.
Originally Posted by Red Flash
Entertaining thread here with some great, creative photoshop work!!! (We got some colleagues here that are really good with that!)
Now, hard to argue with success and the winners always write history. But, some generalizations always do seem to come up:
1.) the tool/thinking man's element of the 928. (Example: high number of engineers (like me) that buy 928s)
2.) the morphing of the 911 into an approximate 928
3.) the show-off element of a 911
4.) non-comparability of the cars (GT vs. sports car)
All of it is a little true. I am more in the situation that I have a limited amount of time and I have gotten to understand one kind of 80s super car. I simply don't have time or energy to understand another kind. So, I'm stuck with 928s! :-) But, I appreciate the other kinds too. I think an 80s 911 would be cool to have (as well as about 5 other classics I'd like to pick up)!! But, it's not gonna happen for me.
Me, I am not interested in a little sports car, i’m a GT man through and through. Much rather cross continents in style than buzz around a couple of bends thinking I am on a racetrack
Hey, here's another article from Barry with his finger on the pulse of the new Suzuki sports sedan.
Spoiler: he liked it!
I believe Kizashi is translated into "something great is coming" or more unfortunately "omen"...like a plague of dead fish or something.
If you want to see 928 features in Pano or any other mag, write and submit them.
Yeah, I've got an outline and some ideas for an article positing that the 928 was the first - and for a long time the only - true Porsche, since everything else the company produced up to the Panamera was a development of an earlier design or a project done for another company. I should finish it.
Last edited by Shawn Stanford; 06-24-2018 at 09:34 AM.
Yeah, I've got an outline and some ideas for an article positing that the 928 was the first - and for a long time the only - true Porsche, since everything else the company produced up to the Panamera was a development of an earlier design or a project done for another company. I should finish it.
Call it a hunch, but if your article had the same title (The Pretenders) and you had a similar graphic, they wouldn't publish it. PCA running an article that marginalizes all other models was just a poor decision...
06-23-2018, 04:07 PM
