soontobered84

Jeremy, I fixed this for you. 85-86 do not have Knock Sensors. 87+ do have Knock Sensors (hence the K in EZK)

dukenukemx

Nah the issue is definitely the bad wiring done to the fuse panel. I've got the car to start if I jump the EZF and Fuel Pump relays. I'll know for sure once I put the fuse panel back in and give it a crank. The cleaning and polishing I'm doing to it is just a bonus.

Anyway, some of the relays aren't meant to be there I've found. One is a BOSCH 0332015013, which was being used in a spot that's suppose to have a 53 relay. The Headlamp wash relay was just a regular 53 relay, so I ordered the correct 928.618.111.00 relay. Now the problem I have is the kick-down relay, cause that doesn't look correct, but I'm not sure. I'm certain it was replaced relatively recently since the pins aren't corroded to hell like the rest. The relay in there now is a Potter & Brumfield VF4-15f11-722. What's suppose to be in there is the 928.618.109.00 relay, which I can't find anywhere. What's the correct relay there for a 928 with an automatic transmission?

Shark2626

as I understand it you can and probably should just leave the kickdown relay out for now, you don’t need it to start the car, but an incorrect one will disable starting the car.

928 International has diagrams of the fuse panel and a list of the relays, as does 928gt.com

http://www.928intl.com/repair/Relay/earlyrelay2.htm

https://www.928gt.com/

soontobered84

Duke,
What is the part number on the CE panels that you are working with? The number is molded into the white plastic portion of the panel.

dukenukemx

Here's a couple of photos of the panels side by side.



I'm just going to assume that is a good enough relay cause I've been to those sites and don't see anything. 928gt.com lists for1986 and 1/2 to 1988, but no 1985, plus that relay is $283. The 1985 Porsche 928's seem cursed for this relay. Anyway, I also need help cause I'm not certain I made the right repair. Here's the area that doesn't show up well in the diagram. The blue circle was shredded and connected to the red circle via electrical tap. I think I fixed it by moving the red circled wire to fuse5, which is where you see it sitting in the photo. But then I thought, man that guy must have cut the wire short cause it just barely reached that connection, but that doesn't sound like something he would have done. So I see scratch marks on fuse15 yellow circle where something used to have been there, but there were scratch marks on fuse5 as well. This wire goes to the Fuel Pump relay 56 as well as the Kick-Down relay 31, and the Rear Defroster relay 15. As you can see the 6-10 and 11-15 fuses are all connected together, both from the larger black wires and the small jumper wire that is circled in blue. That wire circled in blue seems redundant, but looks factory.

Not a lot here is mentioned in the diagram. It doesn't even show that A22 goes to the fuses 1-5, which is powered by "X" according to the diagram. What is "X" you say? Well it's the "X-Bus (+12v when accessory or ignition (2) is on, off for starter (3) position)". But fuses 6-15 are connected to the "15" wire, which yes is the "Ignition (+12v when ignition (2) is switched on, stays on in starter (3) position)". I need someone to tell me what is the difference between the two, and maybe if someone happens to have a photo of the back of their fuse panel as that would be a big help.

Shark2626

it’s your call, but many have said that if the wrong relay (a 53 for example) is in the kickdown spot the car will not start, and this relay is not necessary for the car to start anyway. i would leave it out, for now.

google the part number of that Bosch relay that you want to put in the kickdown spot to see what it corresponds to.

attached is an image of the correct relay, although a later version, i think I’ve read that they are interchangeable, this is just the next generation.

but again, you don’t need that relay in the panel at the moment.

dukenukemx

So is the left and right relay in that photo serve the same function? Or just the right relay?

Shark2626

the one on the left is just a 53, I included as a reference point of how much different the real kickdown relay is.

dukenukemx

I'm only able to find one used. What I'll do is keep in mind that relay might prevent the engine from starting and remove it to see if it has an effect. If it does prevent the car from starting, I'm buying a used 928.618.109.01 relay. Hopefully I can find the old relay and just repair it. Also, I was able to figure out that the wire I put in fuse5 isn't correct, but neither was fuse15. Looking at the old panel I saw that wire at fuse7 and this other yellow/black wire was in its place. The yellow/black wire is going to the X-Bus relay, which according to the diagram goes to "X" and VI86. Which the diagram also shows "X" in the 1-5 fuse panel, which tells me the original fuse panel was probably correct.

You can see I fixed that in the photo, with the bottom panel being the new fixed panel. Also the wire that jumps the fuses 6-10 and 11-15 wasn't conducting as well as it should be. My multimeter was measuring something like 50 ohms, which is why it's red now cause I made a new one. Also I saw some wires in the original that weren't in the new one, Like two wires going from "H" to "V" that doesn't show up in the diagram. Also one that goes from "H" to "N" that doesn't show up. I removed them from the original cause I was going to put them in the new panel, but I figured if the diagram doesn't show it, why bother? Then I realized the diagram isn't accurate, and now I regret not putting them in. Can anyone give me a photo of the back of one of these panels? I just wanna confirm this.

hwyengr

Shark2626

that’s pretty interesting. how would you go about it though?

hwyengr

The official factory test is to use an oscilloscope on terminal 19 of the EZF (sorry for the brain fart on that one earlier) connector while cranking.

hwyengr

And to answer the questions you're actually asking, I've got an '86 panel in the spares. '86 has the same wiring as '85 for blocks N and V, which is nothing except a wire on V11. Can confirm that N and V blocks match wiring diagram.

dukenukemx

I know I quoted you already for this post, but this was a big help. I put the repaired fuse/relay panel back into the car and it wouldn't start. After checking and looking around, I remembered about the kickdown relay, and removed it. Now it starts just fine. I already ordered and received the 928.618.109.01 relay but it didn't come until I came back from the car. Car starts just fine and moves fowards and backwards without issue. Not sure what this kickdown relay does but without it the car does run. Next time I'll put the correct relay in and see what happens. Whoever worked on this car before must have put this relay in and did a bunch of bypassing of wiring to get the car to start, not realizing an incorrect relay will prevent it from starting.

Also the tachometer works now. Might have to do with me dunking the entire fuse panel into white vinegar along with salt to remove the corrosion on the copper contacts. Only needed a half hour of soaking and then I hosed it off and then drenched it with WD40 to prevent a flash rust. Unfortunately none of the other gauges work, like the battery, oil, and temperature. I know the fuel doesn't work, cause I saw the metal contacts in the back to be rusty. Oh yea wipers and door windows don't work either. Might be wishful thinking that removing the copper oxide got the tach working.

**EDIT**

Can anyone confirm that the 928.618.109.01 relay can but used in place of the 928.618.109.00 relay? I can't find the 928.618.109.00 so I got the 928.618.109.01 but that has a diode in the diagram connecting pint 31 & 87a. Is that ok?

Shark2626

I’m going on just a basic understanding, but... The kickdown on my s4 is a button switch located under the accelerator pedal, when you floor the accelerator all the way down you press that switch and it sends a signal to the automatic transmission to downshift or act in a more aggressive way so to speak.

With regards to the relay, again I only have a basic understanding, but the last two numbers generally indicate a newer version of the original, so theoretically an 01 should be a compatible replacement for an 00.

If I am wrong about any of that I’m sure someone will add the appropriate correction.