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Old 06-13-2018, 10:23 AM
  #31  
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For $7,000, I'd rather have an LS1 Trans Am

Boxster doesn't tick any boxes for me. Not like other Porsche models. YMMV
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:29 AM
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Don't let Hacker's posts fool you, he LOVED that Boxster!

I wish I'd driven it while they had it.
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Old 06-13-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by newcollector View Post
Pay the extra and get an early 996 Cabrio stick with a hard-top and IMS retro-fit.
You can 'GT' it like a 928. And 'Sport' it with the roof open like a Boxster / Spyder.
I've taken mine on 5 hour+ road trips (NY-Montreal, NY-Cape Cod a few times). Didn't miss a beat, find it more comfortable than a 928.
As for performance, the early 996 C2 models (RWD, narrow-body) are very analogue, light and tossable. Crushes a 928 on corners and straights on country roads.
In fact, I even prefer our 996 to my wife's 997.2 C4S - she didn't want a 'girly' Boxster. Even rejected a 2012 Boxster Spyder. Top girl!.
Whut he saided. 996s are bottom barrel prices now too. Yes, you have to spend a bit more, but you're getting a ton more car with the 996 over the 1st gen Boxster. When Shawn decided not to get my 996 and switched to a Boxster, I guess this was inevitable.

If you do go for a Boxster, there are a few caveats. First, you MUST find one that has been owned/maintained by a fanatic. So many of these cars were given as gifts, and bought on a whim that there are tons of low-price junk for sale out there. Pay a bit more, and find the one that is in the hands of a responsible owner. My maint book has EVERY stamp from new up to 90,000 miles. Look for that in a Boxster, and you'll be looking for a while. Along with that, look for a car with regular mx. Changing the plugs in the Boxster is not a trivial job. Changing the AOS almost requires a 12YO gurl, and tons of patience. Look for recent work, or plan for a lift, and many hours of detail oriented work. I would say the IMS bearing change is a must-have, or must-do, adding about $2300 to a non-IMS car(or $1100 for DIY with a new clutch). Things tend to be let-go, and 928 folks know that process well.

The 918 in later livery had some punch, but the first gen were plenty showy, and not a lot of go. I drove the Boxsters before getting in a 996 for a drive. I never went back.
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Old 06-13-2018, 12:31 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by SeanR View Post

I’ve been meaning to ask Raby if the early Boxster’s are like the first year 996, which he swears is the best of the series due to the engine being a slightly different than the following years. If so, then I’d not worry about a ‘98 Boxster either.
I'm not Raby(by a long shot, although we are both Marines), but the short answer is that yes, the early car engines are a bit better for several reasons. There was a fire in the factory which moved production so the crossover is kind of mid-late 2000 timeframe, but it's not exact. There seems to be a trend that the machining and the quality of the materials was better on cars built before 6/2000 or thereabouts. Some of the runout on the IMS I've seen from later cars would curl your hair. Plus, the D chunk is very unusual for an early engine. Cyl metalurgy? hmmmmm. Dual row IMS ended sometime in late 2000, although this is not cast in stone either. I believe the chain arrangement and tensioners are also a bit more robust in the early engines, but I'm no expert on that.

The downside is that the later S type engines had more power, and better synchros, so it's a chatch-22.

If you get a Cayman, I'll come visit more often. Not sure if that's a plus, or minus on buying one. Oh, no silver, black, or gray please.
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Old 06-13-2018, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by docmirror View Post
Whut he saided. 996s are bottom barrel prices now too. Yes, you have to spend a bit more, but you're getting a ton more car with the 996 over the 1st gen Boxster.
Totally Disagree.
I have no desire or use for a 996 and I've driven plenty of them. Great cars, but not what I want.

This is the age old argument comparing a GT to a sports car, different car for different purposes. Yes by default of volume you are getting "more" car with a 996, because it's physically larger and weighs at least 200lbs more.

My big dilemma for me is buying a Boxster or a 944S2/968 Convertible. One of the best looking convertibles of all time IMO, but I already have a 944S.
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:05 PM
  #36  
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First good looking Boxsters were the 981 versions with the larger side intake scoops, with the exception to that being the 987 Boxster Spyder. Early cars will have the IMS issue that will cost you half the purchase cost of the car to have replaced with Raby's IMS Solution which uses an oil bearing like the Mezger based Turbo & GT cars. Early car dual-row IMS bearings are actually more dangerous than the later single row bearings because they were robust enough to shet ferrous bearing material through the motor for awhile before grenading which meant there was more core engine damage when one finally failed and fewer reusable parts. It was this bearing that Raby made his IMS Detective kit for that in laymans terms had two magnetic points when when enough ferrous material was collected to complete the circuit, it would light a warning on the dash so you knew the bearing was getting ready to fail. The small single row bearing that followed it would fail much faster, often without any warning signs and often within a single oil change cycle, so no debris in the filter at this change and a trashed motor before the next one. The larger single row bearing that Porsche started using in late 2005 cars and 2006-2008 cars has a very low incidence of failure and isn't replaceable anyway without splitting the case so all you can do is remove the grease seal for better bearing lubrication. The 987 generation had a much better interior as well, and any car worth buying should have the Full Leather option,, that although far from all leather gives you the leather dash and door tops.
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:57 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr View Post
Totally Disagree.
I have no desire or use for a 996 and I've driven plenty of them. Great cars, but not what I want.

This is the age old argument comparing a GT to a sports car, different car for different purposes. Yes by default of volume you are getting "more" car with a 996, because it's physically larger and weighs at least 200lbs more.

My big dilemma for me is buying a Boxster or a 944S2/968 Convertible. One of the best looking convertibles of all time IMO, but I already have a 944S.
Well, good to know that I'm correct. If you don't WANT one, I'll sleep ok tonite. coming out of a modest curve in the Box and step on the go pedal. Do the same on a 996 and you will wonder why the Box was ever built. (make money?)

My 968 experience was with a coupe, and I gotta say, by the time the 968 came around, the interior, shape, and features of it were very - dated. Nice looking cab, but still a big-engine 924 with a lot of gewgaws stuck on. The market agreed with me.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:06 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by docmirror View Post
Well, good to know that I'm correct. If you don't WANT one, I'll sleep ok tonite. coming out of a modest curve in the Box and step on the go pedal. Do the same on a 996 and you will wonder why the Box was ever built. (make money?)

My 968 experience was with a coupe, and I gotta say, by the time the 968 came around, the interior, shape, and features of it were very - dated. Nice looking cab, but still a big-engine 924 with a lot of gewgaws stuck on. The market agreed with me.
If we all bought cars based on the market, none of us would be driving 928s. I personally love the 968...best looking car of the 924/944/968 breed, in my opinion, and definitely better looking than a 996 OR a 1st gen Boxster.

That being said, if I were in the market for some sort of cab...and I wish I were....the 996 might well be my choice. Just so much car for the money right now....although I get the desire for a smaller, lighter car as well...
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:08 PM
  #39  
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The IMS issue will not be going away ever. It will eventually become a 100% failure rate, just depending on how close one gets to overhaul mileage. It WILL fail, or if it reaches the engine life(200k miles?), it will be on its last ball. Mitigation on purchase; first and foremost, have the oil filter examined under daylight, and pull apart the pleats. Second good idea is to have the sump plate removed, and look for metal bits, and also chain pad plastic. Either of these indicates costly work ahead. Once bought; Install a new water pump, 160F thermo, center radiator kit, full flow oil filter(no bypassing), fresh Castrol syn oil. IF the IMS destroys itself, you MAY get away with replacing it and not chew up the whole engine. There are multiple stories out there of engines which have full flow filters and suffered IMS failure without an engine rebuild. Once you hear the rattle noise, shut it off and don't start it again, until it's been diagnosed. After ownership bloom is off; Install or have installed one of the LN solution types, and a RMS and clutch kit. Keep the full flow filter, and relax and have fun.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:11 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by docmirror View Post
Well, good to know that I'm correct. If you don't WANT one, I'll sleep ok tonite. coming out of a modest curve in the Box and step on the go pedal. Do the same on a 996 and you will wonder why the Box was ever built. (make money?)
.....you skip the fact that the Boxster can carry more speed through said curve, that's the point

Some people cannot appreciate a pure sports car, which is fine, they are not for everyone.....and coming from me that's a stretch since the Boxster IMO is still to heavy, but at least it's not as heavy as 911's.
The C4's weight almost as much as a 928 for cripes sake.

Originally Posted by docmirror View Post
The IMS issue will not be going away ever. It will eventually become a 100% failure rate, just depending on how close one gets to overhaul mileage. It WILL fail, or if it reaches the engine life(200k miles?), it will be on its last ball..
You are really on a doom and gloom kick today. You can make that same statement about almost any part in an engine. OMG, something will fail if you run it long enough. No kidding.....
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:12 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by bureau13 View Post
If we all bought cars based on the market, none of us would be driving 928s. I personally love the 968...best looking car of the 924/944/968 breed, in my opinion, and definitely better looking than a 996 OR a 1st gen Boxster.

That being said, if I were in the market for some sort of cab...and I wish I were....the 996 might well be my choice. Just so much car for the money right now....although I get the desire for a smaller, lighter car as well...
Uh,,, I had a little bit of learning on econ and the way I recall the purchases of a product or service make the market, not the other way around. Agree that the 968 is the best of that genre, but it was dated in 92 when it came out, the 'market' (should I say 'car buying public'?) ignored it, and being the best of a series including the 924 isn't really going that grand.

I was thinking of the 996 cab, but when my AeroSport came up for sale near me, it was just too great to pass up. Can't blame anyone for wanting a cab in a bright color.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:13 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by docmirror View Post
Whut he saided. 996s are bottom barrel prices now too. Yes, you have to spend a bit more, but you're getting a ton more car with the 996 over the 1st gen Boxster. When Shawn decided not to get my 996 and switched to a Boxster, I guess this was inevitable.

If you do go for a Boxster, there are a few caveats. First, you MUST find one that has been owned/maintained by a fanatic. So many of these cars were given as gifts, and bought on a whim that there are tons of low-price junk for sale out there. Pay a bit more, and find the one that is in the hands of a responsible owner. My maint book has EVERY stamp from new up to 90,000 miles. Look for that in a Boxster, and you'll be looking for a while. Along with that, look for a car with regular mx. Changing the plugs in the Boxster is not a trivial job. Changing the AOS almost requires a 12YO gurl, and tons of patience. Look for recent work, or plan for a lift, and many hours of detail oriented work. I would say the IMS bearing change is a must-have, or must-do, adding about $2300 to a non-IMS car(or $1100 for DIY with a new clutch). Things tend to be let-go, and 928 folks know that process well.

The 918 in later livery had some punch, but the first gen were plenty showy, and not a lot of go. I drove the Boxsters before getting in a 996 for a drive. I never went back.
I've done several AOS on both Boxster and Caymans, while a pain, it's not the worst thing I can imagine doing. (Que small hands jokes) Cayman was worse since the roof was in the way. Plugs/coils are a non issue on them, to me anyway. I've assisted on 2 L&N's but have refused to buy the for my own use, because that would mean I'd have to take those jobs in. Rather do them on a Boxster/Cayman any day over a 996 and, as you know, I've turned them away. Got too many 928's to work on anyway.

Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr View Post
Totally Disagree.
I have no desire or use for a 996 and I've driven plenty of them. Great cars, but not what I want.

This is the age old argument comparing a GT to a sports car, different car for different purposes. Yes by default of volume you are getting "more" car with a 996, because it's physically larger and weighs at least 200lbs more.

My big dilemma for me is buying a Boxster or a 944S2/968 Convertible. One of the best looking convertibles of all time IMO, but I already have a 944S.
The only 996's I would consider are the very early ones or the wide body C4S. Those hips are sexy on the 4. Turbo of course but those are out of my approved spending range. Honestly, I'd rather have a Boxster over any 924 series car.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:18 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by SeanR View Post
IThe only 996's I would consider are the very early ones or the wide body C4S. Those hips are sexy on the 4. Turbo of course but those are out of my approved spending range. Honestly, I'd rather have a Boxster over any 924 series car.
The Boxster I speak of was really my fathers, but we share cars so often and we had it for over a year, it felt like ours. Point of this story is going back to when he purchased it, he test drove every iteration of 996 including the turbo and still preferred the Boxster S.

Most people thought he was nuts, but he simply explained all the 911's felt heavy, like he was driving their Jaguar XK8, he wanted a sports car. To most lay people who don't get this stuff...the "911 must be better" because it's a 911 or some other BS. This is the same mentality which causes people to look down upon 928's (and 944's).

As I stated earlier, buying a Boxster you have to have some thick skin since you will come across people like Doc who are hell bent on pointing out what a stupid purchase it was compared to X.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by XS29L9B View Post
For $7,000, I'd rather have an LS1 Trans Am

Boxster doesn't tick any boxes for me. Not like other Porsche models. YMMV
3 more will get you a high mileage LS1 GTO. I would go for one of those and drop a Maggie on it.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr View Post

As I stated earlier, buying a Boxster you have to have some thick skin since you will come across people like Doc who are hell bent on pointing out what a stupid purchase it was compared to X.
Honestly, there's nothing wrong with the Boxster and I think it makes a great track car to get experience on when it comes to learning the physics of a car with a mid-mount engine. Go for it!
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