bureau13

OK, a follow-up, along with questions and some screaming and cursing.

It's the tie rods. More specifically, the driver's side inner tie rod. I was fooled because my rack bushings definitely need to be replaced, and I can see movement there with the suspension loaded and the wheel moved...but there's quite a bit more movement in the inner tie rod joint, which can be clearly seen with the car up and rocking the wheel in the 9-3 axis while observing that tie rod. So, I decided to tackle that job. I found a how-to that suggested this was a two hour job, max. HA HA HA HA HA.

Actually, it probably is, if you can get things disconnected. I got the outer tie rod ball joint to pop free, once I found the proper tool (Pep Boys loaner). Reports that you could just whack it with a hammer were greatly exaggerated. Now, on to the inner...and here's where the cursing and screaming begin. I have a set of those flat service wrenches that work great for counterholding thin flats....AC lines, etc. And I sometimes extend the handles with PVC tubing. I've tried that, to no avail. There's just not enough room (jack stands) to get much length on the extensions. I've tried putting a spring compressor on the wrench handles, but I can't get it to squeeze them without sliding off. I'm also worried I may have messed up the rack...if I grab that wrench that's counterholding the rack side and move it, should there be any play in that rack arm? Because there is. Not a lot, but a little, and I don't remember it being there when I started. I might be paranoid though..

Is there any special inner tie rod tool that will work with this car?

bureau13

Quick follow-up, I tried putting a floor jack under the wrench handle while blocking the counter-holding wrench handle, and...I lifted the car. That *^&%%^& isn't going anywhere. Maybe it needs heat, or a really long* wrench handle up on a lift. I think I'm going to have to surrender, put the outer end back in place and drive it somewhere. (*sigh*)

*Like, ten feet??

Landseer

Best safe way is remove rack.
Its actually faster than all the other nonsense you are trying.

Here's how:
Chuck the wrench tightly ( the one that fits on the shaft flat) into a vice mounted on a workbench.
Set rack into wrench (have some wood blocks handy for other end of rack to sit upon.

Once you have rack stable, sitting on the wrench, apply the other wrench (that fits the inner tie rod end).
Take a hammer and tap the wrench to break free the tie rod end.
It is a never-fail method.

This is the only way I've found to remove the inners with zero stress on inside of rack. I've done 10 this way.

You need the vice wrench to be very tightly held by vice.
You need the impact ( tap ) to break the inner tie rod free.

One good thing about this approach is you get to assess the lower steering knuckle ( ie, universal joint).
In a sandy area, like where you live, these things can seize. They power steering is oversized and can mask the situation, but it has to be hard on the innards of the rack. I've had it happen on three cars.

Mrmerlin

Great Idea Chris. if your not going this way then continue reading.

Not sure of the tools your using but you need 2 big wrenches a 32MM and a 22MM,
if the car isnt high enough to work on then go to a shop and pay them to do this work.
Make sure to properly counterhold the rack.

NOTE you have already said you might have damaged the rack and may find the seals leaking from not properly counter holding the rack.

sometimes some heat applied to the rack area where the inner tierod is will assist in loosening the threads .

NOTE turn the rack all the way so the heated end is as far away as possible from the rack body,
use a wet rag on the rack to prevent heat from getting into the seals.

bureau13

I have those wrenches, but they're not very long, so there's not a lot of leverage. I extend the handles some, but on stands, I can't do that very long. Heat is my last hope, before I give up and take it somewhere. Good idea to turn the rack to get the heat as far away as possible.

I really don't want to remove the rack, because then the whole WYAIT list cascades beyond what I'm prepared to do right now. I know I need to do motor mounts, and rack bushings, and and and ad nauseum...but I'm not ready to do that, and the tie rod thing is SUPPOSED to not be that hard, at least based on what I've been reading. I fully admit when it's all said and done I will probably be thinking why didn't I just listen and remove the rack...

dr bob

Jeff, I saw angle-end wrenches somewhere that let you do the heavy work next to the car whle the rack is still installed. Think big crowfoot wrenches, and extensions to get the drive ends out from under the car. They -look- like they should work. I'll share that I didn't even consider needing 3/4"-drive tools until the 928. But 1/2" extensions twist a LOT, and untwist in a violent hurry when something finally lets go. Still, a couple 2' "breaker bars" on the two crows-foot ends should get you there.

I used 20"-long end wrenches with the car on the lift, and the inners released as easy as pie. There's a lot of variance in effort needed, obviously.

bureau13

Hmmm...by the time I go tool shopping I could probably just pay to have it done several times over. There's nothing inherently odd about this tie rod job, compared to other cars, is there? Not really excited about letting some generic mechanic work on this car, but the only places that know it are not close.

Mrmerlin

If you dont have a friendly shop near by then go to HF and buy a bigger jack 3 1/2 ton and bigger jack stands, 6 ton.

dr bob

Expanding on Stan's recommendation:

A while ago we had a discussion about using common 3T stands at full extension vs the 6T stands at the same height. The concern was the amount of force needed to roll the car off the stands. The 3T stands need about 175 pounds of force to roll. Most folks will never be able to generate that kind of force laying under the car without bracing themselves on the same car, so for most this is moot. The 6T stands are still way safer. Part of that original discussion included adding pads under the stands and/or spacer blocks on top to "extend" the 3T stands. Anyway, that casual exercise pretty much convinced me that I'd NEVER plan on any serious undercar work while depending on the 3T stands to hold the car above me. The car goes on 6T stands, or at least in my garage now it usually sits on the lift.

I dusted off the roller jack and the stands over the weekend to allow access for undercarriage cleaning on the DD with the pressure washer. Too much work with the roller jack and the stands, but offset a little by the cleanup effort needed if I do it on the lift inside the workbay. Still have more to do. I was away from home for the normal spring-cleaning season. K's 4Runner was done but the Pilot sat in squalid shame with dirty springs.

bureau13

Now you've got me curious...I don't remember which jack stands I have. I'm betting they're 3T stands though...

dr bob

If your nose scrapes the crossmember and the starter grabs your belt as you roll under, they are likely the 3T stands. In my limited experience, you'll want both anyway. I lift the car onto stands by jacking at one rear lift point, and pick the whole side of the car up. A 6T stand is too tall to go under the front lift point on that side, so a shorter 3T stand gets the duty. Move to the other rear jack point, and now you are holding the car up with that diagonally-opposed stand and your jack. The front lift point on the second side will be way high, a perfect candidate for a 6T stand as high as you can get it. Back to the first rear lift point with the roller jack, and go up there as high as you can. Your first-side front lift point will be way high now, so pull the 3T and slide an extended 6T under that lift point. Now back to rear on side 2 and do the same thing, this time extending the 6T stand that's already under the front lift point on that side to match side 1.

The front of the car will be darn near high enough to sit under. At least it will feel that way after working under the 3T stands.


Use care when you use this method, particularly if you plan to raise the rear of the car onto stands at some point. You can get the front so high that there's not enough room to roll the jack underneath to the rear crossmember, and also there needs to be room to lever the jack handle. At full height on the 6T stands in front, for sure not enough room in back unless you have a long-frame jack.

SeanR

Run to Harbor Freight and grab a long 32mm and long 22mm. Grind the face of the 32mm down so it is thinner. I've had a few that were tough to get off but with enough pressure they come off. Do it by hand and not with a jack. No telling what you will screw up doing it with out having your hands on it. Some of the racks had red loctite on them (stupid) so a bit of heat may help, but I've never had to use any.

bureau13

Sounds like a trip to Harbor Freight is definitely in order. Based on descriptions above, I probably have the 3T jacks. And in fact I don't even them all the way up (I'm complaining about room for leverage, yet I don't have it all the way up??).

Btw I generally jack from the front jack points and put the stands under where the bash plates mount, I can't think of the name for it. I know I've seen people on here do that...do you guys consider that a no-no?

dr bob

Jeff --

I don't know if it's a no-no but it's certainly unnecessary. On my car anyway, with all the original trays in place, it's not a real option. So easy to follow the procedure I shared, which easily raises the front lift points a lot higher than my roller jack will lift anyway. Plus no risk of damage to the rack cover (the "bash plate"?) under the engine crossmember. When I need the whole car up higher on stands, I have to leave the front at a height that allows the jack under the rear of the car to lift by the middle of the rear crossmember. Regardless, I never put a jack under a front lift point or the front crossmember for services. Exception might be motor mounts, when the roller jack carries the crossmember into place under the suspended engine.

Grab at least a pair of the 6T stands for the front and you'll find room for yourself, the creeper, and the new wrenches under those tie rods.

-----

It's probably a decade ago now when there was a group buy here and on GarageJournal for MaxJax lifts. The subject of home lifts has been discussed a lot. Were I making the purchase now I might make a slightly different choice, but only to get ratcheting stops. Otherwise the lift ranks high on the "best garage investments" list. It lifts the car's jack points to about 4' from the floor, high enough for me to work under the car while sitting on a 12"-tall roller seat. At least as important is that the columns unbolt easily from the anchors and roll out of the way when not needed. With some hydraulic hose extensions, I have the hydraulic power unit (the pump...) mounted on the wall and relatively out of the way. It takes a few minutes to roll the columns into place and set the ten bolts, place the arms and pads, and connect the hoses. Less effort than rolling out the roller jack and stands then jacking the car up in the multiple steps, and way less risk of damage to the car or the lift operator (me). I place safety stands under the lift carriages to get just the right low lifted height for some projects, and avoid a boatload of back pain when doing projects like a timing belt. I've done enough 928 MM/OPG replacements on stands to tell you that there is no comparison to doing the same project sitting under the car rather than laying on your back. I'm getting too old and grumpy to be climbing in and out under the car on stands. These lifts often come on sale at the end of the year, so make sure you have one on your holiday gift list. Try and be good, 'cuz a lift is a much better gift for a car guy than coal.

dr bob

Also read carefully what SeanR shared above about NOT putting a jack under a wrench on the steering rack. The sliding part of the steering rack assembly is not intended to rotate. As you work on the tie rods and ends, always keep that in mind. You must counter-hold the rack itself (that's the sliding part) and avoid loading it as you loosen or tighten the inner tie rods. Position the wrenches and yourself so that you are PULLING on the tie-rod wrench while counter-holding the inner rack wrench. Pulling offers much less risk of the counter-hold wrench eating your fingers when the tie rod finally lets loose. Never Hammer On Wrenches Connected To The Steering Rack. Instead, use longer wrenches.