Rich9928p

These guys did an oil test on a Chevy Camero, and ran Mobil 1 for 18,000 miles, sending oil in to Blackstone Labs every thousand miles for a test. Interesting results.

They completed the test on Mobil 1 and are doing a test on AMSoil. They found that EASILY Mobil 1 can make 8000 mile intervals (and that 3000 mile intervals were a complete waste of $).

See the results at:

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

Randy V

Doug Hillary has been posting similar detailed oil testing on his 928. Here's his last couple reports:

Report # 4

Report # 5

Jessa

Its a myth perpetuated by Jiffy Lube and friends.

morganabowen

Let us not forget that Mobil 1 is a synthetic, not to be confused with standard fossil fuel lubricants, which breaks down much faster

T_MaX

Thanks for the link!

Nicole

But interestingly, the car manufacturers rearely specify synthetic oil as a requirement, and still recommend these long change intervals. There are numerous cars in Europe with 30,000 km chanage interval. That's almost 20k miles!!!

Places like Jiffy Lube and the jobs there are built on a lie: The need to change the oil often. There will be a lot of crying, once the US realizes this is a total waste of money.

But then again, somebody told me that most drivers never check their fluids, tire pressure, etc. So Jiffy might come up with a saftey inspection offer that includes oil top-off.

Marketing is soo wonderful!!!

Doug Hillary

Hi,
A happy New Year to you all from a Tropical ( humid 96%, hot 34C, and wet ) Northen Australia

Rich - the M1 test is of great interest as it shows the true benefits of high quality lubricants - and this test was aborted even before it was needed.
I actually funded a duplicate UOA of this vehicle's oil in an independent US Lab to confirm the results to date

As Nicole mentions, our 928's can go for long drain periods as recommended by Porsche and even on mineral oils

Comments were recently made on here about the merits of certain oils - and the likelihood of Mobil 1 ( M1 ) being a suspect lubricant for our cars!

As M1 is the most popular engine oil used by 928 owners in the USA, in Australia, Britain and probably elsewhere, this has raised some doubts in peoples minds about its suitability.

So it is equally important perhaps for Rennlist Members who use M1 to know some facts about it

I hope that this post clears up any suspicions about the product and its suitability for its normal use in our cars

Firstly, I do not use Mobil1 in any of my vehicles. I do use another Mobil product in my 928, Delvac 1 5w-40 - a CI-4/SL Heavy Duty diesel/petrol mixed fleet oil - see later
Secondly, I have no allegiance to any Oil Company - just a commercial interest in purchasing the most cost effective products for use in my business and privately.

However, I do purchase oils and fuel from Mobil. And oils from BP-Castrol and Shell too! To the tune of $000k's per annum

Misuse of any product will eventually lead to a failure. Purchase the wrong speed and weight rated tyre for your 928 and then under-inflate, over-speed and overload it - the result will be a failure! The same applies to oils - of any brand and type

From previous threads here it is obvious that some persons may have unknowingly selected the wrong formulation and/or viscosity of M1 and blamed the oil when a mechanical failure occurred.
They may have also been disturbed by the inherent lower viscosity of certain M1 formulations or simply used the product beyond its intended use parameters

M1 is the most popular selling synthetic oil sold worldwide. It has had nearly 40 years of development - longer than our cars had. It has a great reputation in motor racing circles too - in various configurations

M1 is probably not the very best synthetic oil around but it is certainly the most cost effective and it is universally accepted as such by vehicle manufacturers. It is of course the factory fill at Stuttgart

The latest "SuperSyn" version of M1 is a real bargain. It is a real breakthrough in lubricant technology - much better than the TriSynthetic formulation it replaced nearly two years ago
M1 SuperSyn is an extraordinarily good product and hundreds of used oil analysis ( UOA ) results in a variety of engines confirm this. It produces the same excellent results in many different engine types, in many countries and in all sorts of applications.
It is applauded by Tribologists throughout the world

M1 SuperSyn comes in various formulations and in various viscosities and it is very important to know what is the best viscosity for your 928. If you are already using or intend to use M1 consult the Driver's Handbook to determine the viscosity you need. Do not rely solely on your Service provider as many are simply untrained or lack accurate information in this area. Once this is done you will make the correct choice.

The lowest viscosities are NOT recommended for our cars under any circumstance

As mentioned earlier, I do not use M1 in my 928, I use another Mobil product a "mixed fleet" HD synthetic diesel oil called Delvac 1 5w-40.
I also use Shell Helix and Castrol synthetic oils in many other vehicles!

This post is simply intended to put people's minds at rest and is not a plug for a product I do not use.
Do not have any doubts about using M1 SuperSyn ( in the correct viscosity ) it is truly a world class product and a real pricing bargain!

Some people on here will not even consider using M1 and that is their choice, there is a wide variety of excellent products at our disposal. Enjoy the freedom of choice

Morganabowen - Synthetic Automotive lubricants are as environmentally sound as their mineral cousins and in fact many have an Ester based formulation and are much kinder on the environment

Typically the following products have been formulated into synthetic oils;

Castor oil
Coconut oil
Canola oil
Other vegetable based oils have also been used

You may be amazed what you could find blended in your Redline, Amsoil, Mobil 1, Neo and other such oils and especially so in the more "Boutique" type oils like Silkolene, Motul and etc

Regards

Rich9928p

Thanks Doug. I've seen your posts at "Bob is the oil guy" and you've made some good points over there too.

I'm concerned in particular about the marketing tactics of Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) sales, such as widely used by AMSoil or household cleaning products. Their "lay sales people" take an almost religious approach of proselytizing oil sales. Many times "someone said" or "I heard" or "my brother experienced" gets posted it is quoted chapter and verse with no real "scientific" backing. For the most part, Mobil 1 is their Satan, and they go after it like crazy. I personally don't have anything against the product itself, just the way it is foisted upon the public.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the Blackstone tests go for that oil.

From what I've heard, the Mobil 1R should be good stuff, perhaps Mark Kibort will even use it!

Keep up the good work!

Rich9928p

To perhaps ease reading the tea leaves, from what Doug has posted as industry "acceptable" rates (range rounded) are shown as (x) , actual test results at 18K miles shown as [y]

Iron (30-100) [47]
Aluminium (5-30) [5]
Chromium (1-30) [2]
Copper (10-30) [102]
Lead (40-100) [31]
Silicon (10-30)
Sodium (8-10) [9]

==some more numbers from the test ============

Fresh oil = (z) ; at 18K miles = [y]

Viscosity (60.3);[64.1]
Flashpoint (430);[390]
fuel (< 0.5%);[< 0.5%]
antifreeze (0%);[0%]
water (0%);[0%]
insoluables (trace);[0.1%] (oil filter changed at 12K miles)
TBN (15.5);[6.5 old/3.3 new]

How bad is the TBN in this test?

A look to Blackstone's website has their answers here

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/body...eed_a_tbn_.html

They say that a low test result, meaning very little additive is left, is down around 2. So after 18K miles Mobil 1 wasn't that low yet.

The people that did the test stated that topping up the crankcase is a critical component of extended oil change intervals, and frequent filter changes are most likely the key to extreme-length intervals. The cumulative effect of even minor top-ups, let alone a filter change, substantially increases the longevity of the oil. They didn't recommend going for 18k miles, they felt that 8K miles would be a good compromise. Blackstone didn't recommended a change until 11k miles. But things didn't go downhill so badly after that as the numbers show.

The one strange reading throughout the test was the copper level was very high. It is interesting that the copper started to climb at 3K miles and the 6K reading and the 18K reading are the same. Someone on another website theorizes that it was the result of the type of oil pump used in the Chevy engine, so we wouldn't see this in Porsche 928s.

More comments?

Drewster67

Let me see if I understand correctly.

When using a quality synthethic motor oil, and with the exception of changing the oil filter and topping off the crank, we can go up to 18k miles without a complete oil change.

Also, LESS wear to engine components will be a direct result of longer interval (change) cycles?.

Rich - mark your calendar for the 30th - we're running Firebird that weekend - East track I believe.

Rich9928p

Drew,

As a start, 928 owners need to realize that they can "at least" use the Porsche recommended oil change intervals. Porsches hold more oil than most other cars so the oil life is extended because there is more oil to hold contaminants ... similar to the benefits realized from "topping off" and changing oil filters in the M1 test.

Just like the doctor does blood tests before prescribing some medicines (that may do potential harm) and during the use (i.e. Statins), doing oil lab tests provides a similar benefit. If you spend $20 on an oil test rather than dump $20 worth of oil out, you break even (and don't dump the oil into the environment). If that test finds something wrong before a rod bearing goes out, you've saved a lot of money.

The US oil industry (with no environmental concerns, only profit lust) has perpetuated the 3,000 mile interval ... yes it was needed in 1950, but definitely not now ... and many well-intentioned car owners still blindly follow.

However, for extended oil usage you need to start with a quality oil. TRUE synthetics have the quality, I wouldn't go extended with a non PAO oil (mineral oil), even if it is a group III "synthetic" that is made from mineral oil (such as Castrol Synthec and the many others jumping through the legal "name" loophole).

Doug Hillary

Hi,
Rich - the GM V8 engine used in the test does indeed have a Worldwide reputation for many things. One of these is a high copper "show" in UOAs
It is believed to come from cam/crank thrust washers and appears to have very little effect on longevity. I have also heard mention that it is intentional and part of the initial design

In Australia, this engine also has a mixed reputation - both good and bad. Its worst features are high oil consumption ( especially on your CAFE mandated 10w-30 or lighter oils ), and piston slap. Some on-going research by a V8 SuperCar team here has shown a huge reduction in oil consumption by simply using a 15w-50 oil instead of the lighter viscosities

You rightly point out that oil top up rates play a real role in the longevity of the oil in the engine. My trucks have averaged about 1ltr/6300kms over their current life nearing 1m kms. Latest diesel engine designs are such that controlled oil consumption is programmed in at the start

Most people are paranoid about oil use - even in the 928 where 1ltr/1500kms was acceptable to Porsche. Other manufacturers use a consumption rate calculated against fuel used which is more accurate. A little oil use is a good thing - and my 928 does NOT use a drop damn it!

I do not extend my 928's oil drain period beyond what Porsche recommends. It is usually one year for me unless a negative UOA is recieved in that time

Your professional comments are a pleasure to read

It is such a pity that so many myths exist about the 928 but then there is so little hard and "replicatable" data available

Regards

Drewster67

Thanks Rich - thats good to know.