Would you trade your 928 for a Ferrari?
12-23-2003, 05:25 PM
#31
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That's kind of what I thought. I think that it's reasonable to expect more issues with limited production hand built cars. The same is true of most products.
As for the pricing. I watch 348 prices, and I haven't seen many selling for $70,000, but your point is well made. The 928 was never fully appreciated by a large portion of the Porsche community, and the resale prices suffered accordingly. The 911 turbos have held their values much better. I'll take that bet with you on the 348 values though. They have a poor reputation (at least among the unitiated) and I have seen them sell for ~40K. Also if you want to talk about depreciation, maybe you should compare 911 values to Testarossa values.
As for the pricing. I watch 348 prices, and I haven't seen many selling for $70,000, but your point is well made. The 928 was never fully appreciated by a large portion of the Porsche community, and the resale prices suffered accordingly. The 911 turbos have held their values much better. I'll take that bet with you on the 348 values though. They have a poor reputation (at least among the unitiated) and I have seen them sell for ~40K. Also if you want to talk about depreciation, maybe you should compare 911 values to Testarossa values.
12-23-2003, 05:41 PM
#32
Drifting
Thank God for depreciation, my car cost me less than the cheapest new car you can buy in the UK, I'm glad most of the "Porsche community" didn't appreciate it. Their loss - Our gain...
Do Ferrari owners work on their own cars?
Do Ferrari owners work on their own cars?
Last edited by UKKid35; 12-23-2003 at 06:06 PM.
12-23-2003, 05:48 PM
#34
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Well, if you're watching eBay to get an idea of Ferrari values then you're wasting your time....Only a fraction of Ferrari cars are sold on eBay (maybe the ones with no history and high mileage)....The 348 Spiders are selling for $70K at real auctions, like Barrett Jackson, Bonhams and selected Ferrari dealers....Forza magazine and Hemmings monthly pub is a good indicator also.
The 348 Serie Speciale/Challenge cars are selling for a bit less than that now, but they WILL appeciate with time as only 100-200 of those cars were built by the factory...hopefully both of us will be around in ten years to watch their prices ;-) As for the late Testarossas I can only say that right now these cars are a bargain. They won't be so in a couple of years.
Having said all that I wouldn't mind trading my 928 for a Lotus Esprit since I love the styling of the pre-S4 cars....Although I bet your S4s goes like a bat out of hell.....How much boost are you running in your car and what's the top speed??
Happy Holidays!
The 348 Serie Speciale/Challenge cars are selling for a bit less than that now, but they WILL appeciate with time as only 100-200 of those cars were built by the factory...hopefully both of us will be around in ten years to watch their prices ;-) As for the late Testarossas I can only say that right now these cars are a bargain. They won't be so in a couple of years.
Having said all that I wouldn't mind trading my 928 for a Lotus Esprit since I love the styling of the pre-S4 cars....Although I bet your S4s goes like a bat out of hell.....How much boost are you running in your car and what's the top speed??
Happy Holidays!
12-23-2003, 06:04 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
I've watched Ebay, other online venues, as well as the auction reports. The condition, mileage, and history of these types of cars can result in wildly different prices. Dealers of course always command a premium.
The Esprit was my childhood dream car, and I've really enjoyed it. Currently in stock form, it runs 1 bar in short bursts with a reported top speed of 165 (I've never tested it). However, it's going into the shop in about a month to have these stats "adjusted"
I just can't seem to get enough of a good thing!
-Gary
btw. I agree the Testarossas are a bargain.
The Esprit was my childhood dream car, and I've really enjoyed it. Currently in stock form, it runs 1 bar in short bursts with a reported top speed of 165 (I've never tested it). However, it's going into the shop in about a month to have these stats "adjusted"
I just can't seem to get enough of a good thing!-Gary
btw. I agree the Testarossas are a bargain.
12-23-2003, 06:10 PM
#36
Three Wheelin'
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Honestly, if I had to choose between a stock 348 and a stock 928 I would go with the F car, now this does not include the Bastard, because it makes a good bit more stuff than a stock 348 or 355, or at least as much at the wheel as either of those make off the crank.
I loved every minute of driving that Ferrari 355. It was a rental, so the condition may have led me to believe it was more prone to crazy maintenance than a Porsche, but I really have no facts.
I have also driven 996 and for me, the F car felt much better, but I only had 30 minutes in the 996. I think it must be the sound of the engine that really started me on all of this...
I loved every minute of driving that Ferrari 355. It was a rental, so the condition may have led me to believe it was more prone to crazy maintenance than a Porsche, but I really have no facts.
I have also driven 996 and for me, the F car felt much better, but I only had 30 minutes in the 996. I think it must be the sound of the engine that really started me on all of this...
12-23-2003, 06:21 PM
#37
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Athenian / Forza Ferrari ......... since you mention Enzo did he not once say something like .." The only reason he built road cars was to be able to afford to go racing ." ?? . I have customers who have driven their 928s 200,000 ; 300,000 ; 400,000 miles on the original engine ..... I have heard comments that a Ferrari with 60,000 miles is difficult to sell . Just curious but what is the highest mile Ferrari you know about ? I had a 308 GTS in the family fleet for a while and while I admired the body style found it to be very "KITCAR" in most respects . Perhaps handbuilt equates to kitcar, in particular the quality of the welding visually was not attractive even if functional . Friend's T R which I have crawled around was equally hand built . I tried to get him to race my 68 911 but he declined ...something about it not being very fast . Of course his track car is a 500 rwhp 2,700 lb 928 . As you alluded to many Ferrari's are garage queens , trophys monuments more to the ability to afford to buy one than anything else , you have to admit some owners "brag " about how much they have spent repairing their Ferrari . If they could not tell people they have a Ferrari and no one ever saw them how many people do you think would own one ....? Having "value " and being collectible unfortunately has little to do with quality or function only being "wanted " . People "collect" almost anything even beer cans.........
12-23-2003, 06:31 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
Sterling,
Maybe "value" was the wrong word. If I payed attention to the logical portion of my brain, I'd never even look at Testarossas.... Until I fell in love with the post '87 Esprit, there was no car that I drooled over more as a kid. (I was a little late to the 928 game!)
-Gary
Maybe "value" was the wrong word. If I payed attention to the logical portion of my brain, I'd never even look at Testarossas.... Until I fell in love with the post '87 Esprit, there was no car that I drooled over more as a kid. (I was a little late to the 928 game!)
-Gary
12-23-2003, 07:36 PM
#39
Three Wheelin'
In general I find Italian cars to be lacking in the quality department.
Yea they look and sound nice on the outside, they go like hell in a straight line, but until around mid 90's they looked like their interiors were designed by a ten year old and installed by a juinor high home ed. student.
If you want "Quality" buy German made cars.
If you want something hip, and generaly looked at as a symbl of some kind, buy Italian.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not dising Italian cars, there are a "few" that I would like to own if I live that long!
Yea they look and sound nice on the outside, they go like hell in a straight line, but until around mid 90's they looked like their interiors were designed by a ten year old and installed by a juinor high home ed. student.
If you want "Quality" buy German made cars.
If you want something hip, and generaly looked at as a symbl of some kind, buy Italian.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not dising Italian cars, there are a "few" that I would like to own if I live that long!
12-24-2003, 01:42 AM
#40
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Originally posted by Jim bailey - 928 International
I have customers who have driven their 928s 200,000 ; 300,000 ; 400,000 miles on the original engine ..... I have heard comments that a Ferrari with 60,000 miles is difficult to sell . Just curious but what is the highest mile Ferrari you know about? As you alluded to many Ferrari's are garage queens , trophys monuments more to the ability to afford to buy one than anything else , you have to admit some owners "brag " about how much they have spent repairing their Ferrari.
I have customers who have driven their 928s 200,000 ; 300,000 ; 400,000 miles on the original engine ..... I have heard comments that a Ferrari with 60,000 miles is difficult to sell . Just curious but what is the highest mile Ferrari you know about? As you alluded to many Ferrari's are garage queens , trophys monuments more to the ability to afford to buy one than anything else , you have to admit some owners "brag " about how much they have spent repairing their Ferrari.
Having "value " and being collectible unfortunately has little to do with quality or function only being "wanted ". People "collect" almost anything even beer cans.........
12-24-2003, 02:08 AM
#41
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Well I may not get much attention from this post but whatever I'm 16, I'll say what i have to from past expierences and honest to god no lies.
My stepdad owns a 1978 Ferrari 308GT4 (Dino) its the true Euro version. Question is would i trade my 928 for a Ferrari. Well yeah but i'd have to sell my 928 atleast 10 times at top dollar to come close to even touching a 348, let alone a F355. Ferrari is a race car from the factory, anyone who buys one and lets it sit in the garage and goes on the once a month under 5 grand, baby shifting cruise down a highway with excessive traffic, of course its going to break. Ferrari is designed to be driven hard, the harder you drive them the better they are same goes with Porsches. I'm sure everyone knows that, but no doubt a Ferrari is expensive to fix and maintain, Porsche is like that too. People buy new 911 Turbos or Carreras, but don't have enough money to fix them. I'd say they bought it for the wrong reasons. Just to let it sit in the garage and be looked at as a status symbol. In my opinion to a previous post on the 2nd page about the Corvette and the Ferrari, sure the Corvette might be faster etc...but no offense to corvette lovers..its still a Chevy, NO SOUL. Apples and oranges everyone. All in all, if my 928 was worth about 100grand plus, hell yeah i'd trade for the F40, still kicking butt today and its 15 years old. Everyone could go on and on about Ferrari and Porsche, just like 928 VS Corvette. Its a matter of taste of what you like.
Oh and about the Ferrari mileage reply above, our 308 has over 100,000 miles and its a 1978, still raps up beautifully to its 3.0L midengine 7800rpm redline with ease and feels as if power is not an issue with its 4 two barrel Webers. Its cranks, runs, and idles better than my moms 99' Audi A6, let alone my 928. Just wanted to let my piece of info in, i may be only 16 but i've had my fair share of car riding/driving experiences and vacations to Road Atlanta.
Hope knowone took any of this as being offensive its all opinionated.
Cory J.
My stepdad owns a 1978 Ferrari 308GT4 (Dino) its the true Euro version. Question is would i trade my 928 for a Ferrari. Well yeah but i'd have to sell my 928 atleast 10 times at top dollar to come close to even touching a 348, let alone a F355. Ferrari is a race car from the factory, anyone who buys one and lets it sit in the garage and goes on the once a month under 5 grand, baby shifting cruise down a highway with excessive traffic, of course its going to break. Ferrari is designed to be driven hard, the harder you drive them the better they are same goes with Porsches. I'm sure everyone knows that, but no doubt a Ferrari is expensive to fix and maintain, Porsche is like that too. People buy new 911 Turbos or Carreras, but don't have enough money to fix them. I'd say they bought it for the wrong reasons. Just to let it sit in the garage and be looked at as a status symbol. In my opinion to a previous post on the 2nd page about the Corvette and the Ferrari, sure the Corvette might be faster etc...but no offense to corvette lovers..its still a Chevy, NO SOUL. Apples and oranges everyone. All in all, if my 928 was worth about 100grand plus, hell yeah i'd trade for the F40, still kicking butt today and its 15 years old. Everyone could go on and on about Ferrari and Porsche, just like 928 VS Corvette. Its a matter of taste of what you like.
Oh and about the Ferrari mileage reply above, our 308 has over 100,000 miles and its a 1978, still raps up beautifully to its 3.0L midengine 7800rpm redline with ease and feels as if power is not an issue with its 4 two barrel Webers. Its cranks, runs, and idles better than my moms 99' Audi A6, let alone my 928. Just wanted to let my piece of info in, i may be only 16 but i've had my fair share of car riding/driving experiences and vacations to Road Atlanta.
Hope knowone took any of this as being offensive its all opinionated.
Cory J.
12-24-2003, 02:38 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
The 308 Dinos have a reputation for being reliable, inexpensive, and easy to maintain. They were highlited in one of the classic car magazines a few months ago as a good "affordable" Ferrari. I think the whole engine out and big $$ maintenance issues of many of the F-cars scare off a lot of potential owners and make many of those who do take the plunge reluctant to put miles on the cars or even drive them hard. Although I'm sure they are out there, I've never met anyone who uses a Ferrari as a daily driver. On the other hand, I specifically bought my 928 to be my summer time daily driver.
-Gary
-Gary
12-24-2003, 02:53 AM
#43
Three Wheelin'
While flipping through a British Classic Car magazine, I noticed that 348s are actually advertised for the same or cheaper than the 328 series. I always figured that the 348 was the pariah of the Ferrari clan much like the 928 is with the Porsche crowd and this confirms it. The 928 is an amazing car, just underappreciated, much like the 348, I presume. Still, if offered a 328 vs a 348, I'd go 328 every time. There hasn't been as beautiful a Ferrari (or car actually) since that model. Like the modern Porsches, the new Ferraris have lost their way.
12-24-2003, 11:13 AM
#44
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You asked if any Ferrari owners do their own work? I do when I have the time. The older cars aren't that complicated. Once you get into the electonics eras, its tough to do trouble shooting without a lap top. But the same can be said about Porsches too.
I know of several 100k+ mile Ferraris, and have had friends that have put up to 130k miles on a TR before they sold it. If you drive them, they're less likely to break. I'm not going to take the bait for the "Ferrari vs. Porsche" contest. They're different products marketed to different people. I for one really like the older cars that are somewhat uncomfortable and rather difficult to drive fast. Anyone can get some serious speed in a new Porsche or Ferrari, but any true driver will tell you that its more rewarding to get a turn just right in an old car. Fortunately the limits on the older cars are lower and you won't be going as fast if you do screw it up.
As far as Ferrari production, I believe that the current production number is right around 100k total. Road cars were odd numbered sequentially up to chassis number 75000. Mass production (greater than 3k/year) didn't start until the 80's. My 365 was built in November of 1975 and is chassis number 18759.
Although I am new to this list, I've judged Ferraris at the Cavallino Classic and various FCA national meets. I like both marques, but I am a relative newbie to the Porsche world. Just trying to dispell some of the myths.
Regards,
Erik
I know of several 100k+ mile Ferraris, and have had friends that have put up to 130k miles on a TR before they sold it. If you drive them, they're less likely to break. I'm not going to take the bait for the "Ferrari vs. Porsche" contest. They're different products marketed to different people. I for one really like the older cars that are somewhat uncomfortable and rather difficult to drive fast. Anyone can get some serious speed in a new Porsche or Ferrari, but any true driver will tell you that its more rewarding to get a turn just right in an old car. Fortunately the limits on the older cars are lower and you won't be going as fast if you do screw it up.
As far as Ferrari production, I believe that the current production number is right around 100k total. Road cars were odd numbered sequentially up to chassis number 75000. Mass production (greater than 3k/year) didn't start until the 80's. My 365 was built in November of 1975 and is chassis number 18759.
Although I am new to this list, I've judged Ferraris at the Cavallino Classic and various FCA national meets. I like both marques, but I am a relative newbie to the Porsche world. Just trying to dispell some of the myths.
Regards,
Erik
12-24-2003, 04:09 PM
#45
Three Wheelin'
"I'm not going to take the bait for the "Ferrari vs. Porsche" contest."
Dang, I thought I would be able to suck in more than one Ferrari owner or poser Trolling about!
O-well maybe next time!
Dang, I thought I would be able to suck in more than one Ferrari owner or poser Trolling about!
O-well maybe next time!
