I ask for a few moments of silence in memory of a lost 993. Today on a fun run, a tree jumped out and attacked a beautiful black C4S that got in a little too deeply in a turn. The tree emerged unscathed, while the C4s wrapped itself aroung the tree and then rolled backward into a fence that somehow saved the car from rolling down an embankment and onto its roof. I know these things are not supposed to happen but what a trauma.
And what a pity for the owner who escaped with a sore arm. Ruined the otherwise great California day for him, and my mood was somber all the way back to San Jose. My sympathies to him.

 

Yikes. Was this on the BAR drive? I was thinking of going but had already done a lot of driving yesterday at Sears Point.

I know all to well how that C4S owner feels. It sounds like he escaped any sort of serious injury and that's the most important thing.

 

Oh god - what a horrible story! It reminds me of the last "Sharks in the Park" fun drive, where we had one "almost" crash, and one off-road test.

We either need to educate those California trees a little better, or use a little more caution on these drives. After all, we go out to have fun, not to prove anything - right?

I'm so glad that in all those incidents, nobody got seriously hurt!

 

It was on the BAR drive which was aborted as a result. Pretty somber fellows, (at least I was), on the way home. It was Jauder's C4S which is pretty bent. Got into some gravel on the roadway I think.

 

Perhaps just another example of why exploring the limits on the street is a bad idea ..... it is fortunate it was a tree and not across the center line and into opposing traffic . This is not an "accident" but poor judgement , "reckless driving" and a foreseeable not at all surprising result of driving too fast for the conditions (which include gravel on the road ! ) . Sad to hear of a nice car being crashed , absolutely ....sympathy for the driver , NOT ! ..........Note that we all may get to help pay for that incident by increased insurance rates , part of why Porsches cost more to insure than other cars . The fact that it "wrapped around a tree" indicates it "spun out", the rear end went part way around the front end and it went sideways into a tree which sounds like a classic case of lift off the throttle induced OVERSTEER ( Oh $h!t , I am going too fast ,let up on the gas). Had the front wheels "washed out" on gravel it should have understeered plowed pretty much straight off the road . My point is that perhaps some autocross / D E track time would have been more appropriate both to limit the risks and improve driving skills . With a 911 in a corner when in doubt stay somewhat on the gas ! at least you should see what you are about to hit .

 

Voice of reason speaks..........

Whit a bit of guilt based chagrin, I have to agree that Jim's message has merit.

 

Jim:

He said he felt the rear coming around and got back on the throttle. What is not clear is whether or not he corrected into the spin direction. I had passed that same spot earlier and saw the leaves and gravel and lifted on approach because of seeing cars in front stir up the mess as they passed.

I am also reminded of the Ruf Fazination video wherein the factory driver in Yellow Bird uses oversteer to his advantage skillfully and in control without seeing him use the brakes. (I should be able to drive that masterfully.) A skill acquired over time and experience.

I have removed the photos for the sake of the driver's security and privacy.

 

I morn for the car, up here the closest we had on 1 of the PCNA events I went to was a 911 almost rear ending me as the 4pot calipers were stopping me alittle quicker than he was able to stop and he locked up his tires I let off the brakes and nailed the gas and gavehim the needed room to stop

 

Interesting you mention it Liz....

That kind of defensive driving has become a way of life for me with my P cars. It is the rare car on the road that can stop as fast, so as a matter of practice I leave a bit of space between me and the guy in front, so I have some runoff that I can allow for the guy behind me...... Especially in suprise or emergency braking conditions, my eyes are as much in my rearview mirror as they are on the rear bumper of the car in front of me.

More than once, I have had to pull out of a lane quickly to avoid getting rearended when the guy in front, panic brakes. Once the guy behind me actually rearended the guy in front of me under those circumstances. I was in the median........... watching the whole thing.

 

Having been accused of being a reckless driver myself, I'll ask the hard question: How "fast" is too fast or how "reckless" is too reckless? And the really hard question: How many of us drive hard only at a race track?, and for those who drive hard on the street, Why? No judgments. Just questions. - Ruf

 

I recently had one of those "oh-****" experiences.
I am not what I would consider to be a "experienced" driver by no means. However, I do my very best to apex every turn I come up to and I try to best use my gas/brake to negotiate every turn.

Anyway, about a week ago, I was zipping across the 150 highway between Filmore and Ojai. I am certain a lot of you know of these little stretches. Great sets of medium turns where you can carry some decent speed if you want. It was dark and I was on my way home. I approached one rather interesting right hander that ramps as it turns. I had my highbeams on and was going a little faster than I should have. As I approached the turn, I realized I was coming in hot and to make matters worse, there was an approaching car. I first clicked my highbeams down which robbed me of a few milliseconds and instinctively let go of the gas and almost went for the brake. Oooooh what a bad move that would have been!! At the last second, I stuck my foot back in it and headed for the apex. For the first time in my driving history, I did a 4-wheel drift around the corner!! It scared the hell outta me and it took some time for the hair on the back of my neck to come down.

I have no idea what would have happened had I done what I instinctively would have done before by releasing the gas and hitting the brake. I probably would have lost it coming around that corner. It was eerie feeling and hearing the tires grind around that corner but the car stayed glued.

No Opinion
Thread just made me remember this

 

Gretch, leaving room is not always able to be done, I had 1 cop almost rearend me because I had to brake in a hurry and he was riding my butt and I was speeding he swevred around me thank god and gave me a dirty look which I returned and then called in his car # to the station stating what had happened, dont know what happened to him but I hate the cops.

and as for driving Ruf, how fast is too fast, it can never be too fast, just do it where you are only putting yourself at risk NOONE else,
as per reckless I have done speeds that people would say that it was reckless driving but I was the only 1 who would have gotten injured noone else, and I do leave a fairly large margin for safety, although at 280+ kmph you cant have a huge margin avalible, but certain things you can do is know how to drive #1, know how to brake at these speeds, NEVER panic, know how your brakes are, know that you have good tires

so people yes may say i am a reckless driver at times but that is because I drive slightly drift and kick the but out around a few corners, they dont know about the speed cause there is noone else there when I do it.

 

Well Rufus,
While I agree in substance with Jim there are caveats.
Insurance: Those outfits will insure you to your financial detriment down to the color of your car.
I have a relatively ticket free driving history, less than 5 and none in the last ten years.
I have NEVER recieved an insurance break ... age 25, married at 27, children, Ford Falcon, Chrysler New Yorker, Dodge Polara, Buick Regal, & Mercury Marquis owner, Home owner, low mileage to work -currently 12 miles a day, 10 over the limit was the worst speedig ticket. Mandatory driver safety training annually for both motorcycle and auto. And of course now I have a 16 year old ...no break there for him or me...The only savings I have ever seen is combining Home and car insurance. I'm 53 now and it's still going up!
Point of fact, each time I returned from overseas assignments in the military my insurance went up ... was considered uninsured during overseas tours even though I showed them my European policy's.
Nix on the insurance going up because of someone else's misfortune.
Racing on the Track only is a great concept but with the exception of dirt tracks, and the open road races at Ft. Stockton and the new Midland, John Foster Run I'm looking at buying time at the Texas Motor Speedway in Dallas for track time and it's a six hour drive just to get there! Not likely.
There are few and far distanced PCA runs in the 2nd biggest state. Frankly I doubt if many would travel 3 hours or more to race the clock on a flat spot thru orange pylons -cones-. And for damn sure I'm not one of them!
Doesn't leave a lot does it? Road racing, illegal as it is and sometimes as dangerous it may be is the only outlet for performance oriented enthusiast. Street racing has been around since the first two cars heading in the same direction decided to clear the air. Wether you argue for or against street racing the bottom line is that the decision to race and any of the outcomes good or bad rest on you. Ya wanna dance ... there is risk involved to both yourself and others.
Some "risk" is self inflicted, some is totally random and is, at least in our society, dependant only on chance. A chain breaks on a truck load of pipe, someone gets a flat while hauling half of a double wide mobile home, someone swerves to miss a squrrel, a road wash out, an earthquake in San Francisco drops a bridge deck span, add your own........
I've been on Interstate 10 coming from New Orleans to Texas on three occasions when the sky went from overcast to a torrential, blinding, deluge and I can tell you nothing you have seen on NASCAR, or at the movies comes close - 30 - 40 cars flitting across your field of vision and none of them pointed in the same direction....
Time downshifts to low gear, you stop breathing ... riding it out...
You may call it apples and oranges but If you could bring back the 400,000 or so dead from all the highway accidents from the last 10 years and ask them all when they woke up on the day of their deaths if they had planned on dying that particular day you wouldn't get a lot of affirmative answers.
Lots of risk out there ...
I don't know what happened to cause the demise of the 993 driver,
but yeah, speed, control, road conditions, experience surely were factors.
I'd take a wild guess and say he wasn't doing 15mph over the posted limit when Lady luck turned her back on him.
Scary, you bet! But at the recent 3rd coast event some rocket scientist decided to run with the Porchedill/PCA folks - figure 30 to 40 Porches of all flavors trying to go on a run using 2, 4 lane, and freeways in and around north/central Austin Texas with plenty of traffic lights and wretched traffic. I bailed and ended up street racing a vicious Blonde in a 5 series BMW for about 40 miles on the outskirts of Austin - forgive me for feeling a helluva a lot more comfortable not swerving in and out of traffic trying to beat lights just to be in a Porsche convoy.
Bottom line, if it's about taking risks on public highways the decision is yours, the consequences may involve others and you will be held responsible, of course the same could be said of 1962-1963 Corvair owners.
I don't own a 63' Valient, a 61' Falcon, or a 52' Packard....
I own a 928. It's a beautiful car. It handles well at speed. It goes fast.
It does these things well. I like being in my sHARk when it is handling well at speed...sometimes.

 

John:
And so do I in mine. And I suppose that's why the car was designed and built, and built well above the common denominator, to give us and others a chance to survive. Maybe I'll meet you in Ft. Worth at the next Porsche Parade.

 

Bernie-
Interesting, this is the first I have heard that lifting off the throttle in a 928 will induce oversteer, as it certainly will in a 911.