Doug DeMuro drives: 928 GTS - YouTube
07-31-2017, 07:42 AM
#76
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Adelaide South Australia'79 5spd twin turbo
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Doug did himself no favours with me, with that review.
His voice was particularly jarring to my Aussie ears.
He spent far to much time talking "quirks" down. When in reality they were perfectly acceptable answers to problems. How deep can the console bin be when there is a torque tube and shifter rod under it? I love the interior door lock **** and the seat belt release on the side of the latch.
No mention of the front rear weight distribution and the resultant surefootedness made him look like a philistine.
For my money Clarkson got it right" it could go out and eat a tractor"
The engineering in a 928 is on a level above nigh on everything.
His voice was particularly jarring to my Aussie ears.
He spent far to much time talking "quirks" down. When in reality they were perfectly acceptable answers to problems. How deep can the console bin be when there is a torque tube and shifter rod under it? I love the interior door lock **** and the seat belt release on the side of the latch.
No mention of the front rear weight distribution and the resultant surefootedness made him look like a philistine.
For my money Clarkson got it right" it could go out and eat a tractor"
The engineering in a 928 is on a level above nigh on everything.
07-31-2017, 11:39 AM
#77
Rennlist Member
07-31-2017, 01:04 PM
#78
Administrator - "Tyson"
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Interesting thread - I thought the review was spot on.
Especially the rear seats & sun visor. Most 2+2 cars have tiny rear seats, but really....what is that visor for?
The sunroof is a joke, they should have done a pop up / removal style the 944 has. Not only would this have have saved headroom, it would be more functional. It's not like the 928 doesn't have a place to put it!!!
The quirks you guys are ripping on him for are part of the 928 lore, he's just pointing out just how odd they really are. It's what makes the 928 special.
I mean, he compared how quiet the ride is to a Panamera. A modern six figure GT - you cannot compliment a 928 much better.
As we've learned from Greg Brown, there are different steering racks and the GTS specific ones are supposed to have a lighter feel. If this car ever had a leaking rack, the replacement unit was most likely a non GTS version which ends up being heavier feel than an S4.
I agree the later cars do feel heavier than many other vehicles, but this could be a compounding issues with this GTS. Just a thought.
+1
People forget that Porsche was a tiny, tiny company in the late 60's. They looked around and saw the Corvette was larger, long nose front engine. The Ferrari Daytona same layout, Jaguar E-type etc.....
Porsche saw a future moving away from small, nimble sports cars with a push to luxurious GT's. They simply didn't have the time or budget to fully develop two cars side by side. Why do you think they did a joint venture with the 914? They needed VW.
As the 70's progressed, Porsche was wrong. There was still a market for the 911 and as Joe pointed out above, they figured out how to keep the flat 6 legal around the globe (and even California).
Porsche was right with the move to GT's over sports cars. They just started 30 years too early. They spend the next generations of the 911 morphing it into a GT car which is why a "modern" 928 in the Porsche line up makes zero sense. They already have the 911 to fill the GT gap with the Caymen / Boxster as their sports car.
Especially the rear seats & sun visor. Most 2+2 cars have tiny rear seats, but really....what is that visor for?
The sunroof is a joke, they should have done a pop up / removal style the 944 has. Not only would this have have saved headroom, it would be more functional. It's not like the 928 doesn't have a place to put it!!!
The quirks you guys are ripping on him for are part of the 928 lore, he's just pointing out just how odd they really are. It's what makes the 928 special.
I mean, he compared how quiet the ride is to a Panamera. A modern six figure GT - you cannot compliment a 928 much better.
IMO, everything he said was true, including the incredibly heavy steering. As we know, that heavy steering becomes an asset at highway speeds, and especially at the track at 150 mph. Despite that, what he said is correct - it is a very heavy feeling car to muscle around town.
I agree the later cars do feel heavier than many other vehicles, but this could be a compounding issues with this GTS. Just a thought.
They didn't want to replace or discontinue the 911. But they were afraid that they were going to have to.
Remember the late 60s and early 70s? Remember what happened to the cars? Pollution controls and safety regulations put a huge dent in performance. It took a couple decades before they were able to make cars perform as well as before.
Porsche was genuinely afraid that pollution control laws would doom the air cooled motor. And that proposed safety laws would doom any rear engined car. Remember Nader and the Corvair? He had no more love for the 911 or the Beetle. Remember that the Beetle was discontinued in the US a couple years before it ceased production world wide?
Porsche had very real concerns that their biggest market, the US, would be closed off. So they came up with a backup plan.
Remember the late 60s and early 70s? Remember what happened to the cars? Pollution controls and safety regulations put a huge dent in performance. It took a couple decades before they were able to make cars perform as well as before.
Porsche was genuinely afraid that pollution control laws would doom the air cooled motor. And that proposed safety laws would doom any rear engined car. Remember Nader and the Corvair? He had no more love for the 911 or the Beetle. Remember that the Beetle was discontinued in the US a couple years before it ceased production world wide?
Porsche had very real concerns that their biggest market, the US, would be closed off. So they came up with a backup plan.
People forget that Porsche was a tiny, tiny company in the late 60's. They looked around and saw the Corvette was larger, long nose front engine. The Ferrari Daytona same layout, Jaguar E-type etc.....
Porsche saw a future moving away from small, nimble sports cars with a push to luxurious GT's. They simply didn't have the time or budget to fully develop two cars side by side. Why do you think they did a joint venture with the 914? They needed VW.
As the 70's progressed, Porsche was wrong. There was still a market for the 911 and as Joe pointed out above, they figured out how to keep the flat 6 legal around the globe (and even California).
Porsche was right with the move to GT's over sports cars. They just started 30 years too early. They spend the next generations of the 911 morphing it into a GT car which is why a "modern" 928 in the Porsche line up makes zero sense. They already have the 911 to fill the GT gap with the Caymen / Boxster as their sports car.
07-31-2017, 01:43 PM
#79
Burning Brakes
... Doug DeMuro was literally in charge of sales for Porsche North America. Y'all are tearing into him like he doesn't know a thing about cars.
We all hold our cars on a pedistal. I think my car is the best car in the world, and I think it is timeless and perfect. And I get pissed off when people point out a few flaws.
Insult the review, not the reviewer. If I paid attention in College I could tell you what Logical fallacy that is.
We all hold our cars on a pedistal. I think my car is the best car in the world, and I think it is timeless and perfect. And I get pissed off when people point out a few flaws.
Insult the review, not the reviewer. If I paid attention in College I could tell you what Logical fallacy that is.
- the flashlight in the key is something really common beck in 80ies and 90ies , I cannot find that strange, weird, funny or crazy....it was common, today there are LEDs under the door handles to increase comfort yet before getting into the car,not those days.
-"Oil Ok ? "on the fuel cap flap is not just a remind of your last oil level check , but prevents gas dripping on the body. nobody told him.
-sunroof is small because the roof is small. telling about internal height stolen to tall drivers is ok, telling it was not something necessary ok, telling it'snot Worth the effort...opinable.
- " twisting circles is something really strange, ok, but it is functional ? imho, yes it is.and practical.
- triangle on the gear lever: there are also those kind-of idiot lights on the gauge cluster , if memory serves me right. that triangle is something more than necessary, maybe .
- central lid os for coin and cassette holder, as the tunnel is really big.you can put credit cards and mobile phone, ipod......or cassette , if you bother to use those in your 928.
- reset button is the biggest in the history.....and so?
-at about 7:00 ....can anyone tell me if the meaning of grandtourer is correct. that meaning shold be applied also to the MB e63 AMG he' owned....
- Rear sunvisors:
my sons use that to protect the rear of their heads from the sunlight coming from the rear glass....
rear seats are cramped.yep.My ex BMW 635 had more space, but, more or less space, cannot accomodate a normal height person.
-Cluster moving with the steering column is a sign of ergonomy or crazyness?
after 10:20 I agree about everything he said...
the 928 has plus and minus points, like every other car. Doug did not pointed to flaws , but to something else I would not put in a review like flaws, review is wrong .. or reviewer? I do not know. But It is the first time for me that someone approach to a car "Test" in this sort of way. A "normal" car journalist could have done that in a completely different way.maybe a good car journalist cannot tolerate a "test "like that.
my 0,02.
08-01-2017, 08:34 AM
#80
Burning Brakes
Doug was actually a dealer allocation manager for Porsche - not in charge of sales for Porsche NA. Big difference. His job was to assign allocations of cars among the dealers depending on the market demand and sales performance of the dealerships.
I like his reviews in general. He did leave out some critical points, such as the significance of the rear transaxle and its effect on weight distribution. He also kind of gave me the impression from the start that he felt the car was dated and quirky (but not in necessarily in a good way) , and clearly he didn't love the car as so many here do. He's not wrong on the heaviness of the car, especially with the automatic. German cars back then did feel heavy, and people loved them for it. That said, it he thinks that is heavy steering, he should try my 1983 911SC with its fully manual rack. THAT is heavy.
Funny how the different generations see cars, though. He looks at the mid year 928 wheels and body as dated - I think they are the best looking versions. I'm 48, and he's not. To each his own, I guess.
I like his reviews in general. He did leave out some critical points, such as the significance of the rear transaxle and its effect on weight distribution. He also kind of gave me the impression from the start that he felt the car was dated and quirky (but not in necessarily in a good way) , and clearly he didn't love the car as so many here do. He's not wrong on the heaviness of the car, especially with the automatic. German cars back then did feel heavy, and people loved them for it. That said, it he thinks that is heavy steering, he should try my 1983 911SC with its fully manual rack. THAT is heavy.
Funny how the different generations see cars, though. He looks at the mid year 928 wheels and body as dated - I think they are the best looking versions. I'm 48, and he's not. To each his own, I guess.
08-01-2017, 10:43 AM
#81
Rennlist Member
The guy is a tool no doubt but it gets peoples attention. Those that know little about these cars find him entertaining being the geek that he is and they have no clue.
It is easy to find fault in any of the cars of this generation. Many of the features of this car were groundbreaking and were not found on the better luxury cars of the day yet some of the features he criticized were used on the 911's as well. These cars were designed to replace the 911 and IMO they stayed with the 911 because of its popularity but when the 928 was killed off was the begining of the 911 becoming more of a GT car. They morphed many features into the 911 that IMO killed the sports car the 911 was and in a sense killed off two great cars at once.
There is no doubt the GTS's steering is immensely heavy even for power assist and by todays standards. Compare to a 911 of the time even an RSA with manual rack the steering is heavy while moving but that is what the car is about. Slow and smooth as with every feature from the wipers to the power windows. It added a luxury that was not combined with a sports car of the time. The 5 speed drives more like a corvette than a 911 and he is correct you have to mash the pedal to get the power up unlike the 911's which always were raring to run. But to nit pick about one of the greatest GT cars made of an era when cars were meant to be driven instead of a platform for your electronics I think his review on this one missed the marque so to speak.
What was up about the back glass? It is not like it is specific to any 928 and in that respect he should realize are relatively easy to source used. It was not one of his better efforts. The example looked to be not the greatest and it seemed as though he started this with the intent to bash because I don't think he is a fan of the car. IMO the early 90's Porsche's are some of the best made ever, all models. They offer something no modern car can. Compared to the other cars of the era these were by far the best of the best for both comfort and driving. They come from a time and place that no longer exists.
He is allowed his opinion, the internet just helps throw it in our faces. It is easy for the 20 and 30 something's of today to look back and find fault with everything. They compress and condense it into a single thing and try to compare it to where we are today. Living through these years and watching as things unfolded told a completely different story that only the experience of living through it can explain.
I would have loved to hear what he would have said about the cell phone option in mine. I am sure he would have been flipping it back and forth saying what is up with this? We all know what makes these cars so great so who cares what he has to say.
BTW as far as the rear visors go if you fit in teh back of the 928 you are grateful they are there. When my son was young and sat back there he always had it up so it kept the sun off his neck.
It is easy to find fault in any of the cars of this generation. Many of the features of this car were groundbreaking and were not found on the better luxury cars of the day yet some of the features he criticized were used on the 911's as well. These cars were designed to replace the 911 and IMO they stayed with the 911 because of its popularity but when the 928 was killed off was the begining of the 911 becoming more of a GT car. They morphed many features into the 911 that IMO killed the sports car the 911 was and in a sense killed off two great cars at once.
There is no doubt the GTS's steering is immensely heavy even for power assist and by todays standards. Compare to a 911 of the time even an RSA with manual rack the steering is heavy while moving but that is what the car is about. Slow and smooth as with every feature from the wipers to the power windows. It added a luxury that was not combined with a sports car of the time. The 5 speed drives more like a corvette than a 911 and he is correct you have to mash the pedal to get the power up unlike the 911's which always were raring to run. But to nit pick about one of the greatest GT cars made of an era when cars were meant to be driven instead of a platform for your electronics I think his review on this one missed the marque so to speak.
What was up about the back glass? It is not like it is specific to any 928 and in that respect he should realize are relatively easy to source used. It was not one of his better efforts. The example looked to be not the greatest and it seemed as though he started this with the intent to bash because I don't think he is a fan of the car. IMO the early 90's Porsche's are some of the best made ever, all models. They offer something no modern car can. Compared to the other cars of the era these were by far the best of the best for both comfort and driving. They come from a time and place that no longer exists.
He is allowed his opinion, the internet just helps throw it in our faces. It is easy for the 20 and 30 something's of today to look back and find fault with everything. They compress and condense it into a single thing and try to compare it to where we are today. Living through these years and watching as things unfolded told a completely different story that only the experience of living through it can explain.
I would have loved to hear what he would have said about the cell phone option in mine. I am sure he would have been flipping it back and forth saying what is up with this? We all know what makes these cars so great so who cares what he has to say.
BTW as far as the rear visors go if you fit in teh back of the 928 you are grateful they are there. When my son was young and sat back there he always had it up so it kept the sun off his neck.
08-01-2017, 12:41 PM
#82
Instructor
Heh. I wasn't even born when the last GTS left the lot, and I much prefer the early body style. But my dad, who is 47, prefers the later style because that was on the showroom floors in the later years.
08-02-2017, 09:46 PM
#85
I would say my 5-speed S3 has too touchy of a throttle if anything. Although it's not nearly as touchy as a newish Subaru SUV I drove recently. I think that the manufacturers today tend to think that a touchy throttle feels "sporty", so it's good for marketing, and people have come to expect it. So now older cars feel like they have a "heavy" pedal.
Doug is pretty entertaining sometimes, but I think he lost his way when he started scoring the cars. He's just doesn't do his homework enough to justify that. I can't take him seriously since his "reviews" just go for cheap laughs that appeal to popular opinion rather than anything insightful, thoughtful or well researched.
Doug is pretty entertaining sometimes, but I think he lost his way when he started scoring the cars. He's just doesn't do his homework enough to justify that. I can't take him seriously since his "reviews" just go for cheap laughs that appeal to popular opinion rather than anything insightful, thoughtful or well researched.
12-08-2018, 03:54 PM
#86
Three Wheelin'
I was going to post this video as a new thread, thank god I searched first, it would have been the biggest enzo ever committed in the history of mankind.
I think Doug does better when it's tongue and cheek, like his East German Trabant review for example.
To try and translate that style to a well sorted 928 GTS.... meh, just doesn't work as well for me.
I think Doug does better when it's tongue and cheek, like his East German Trabant review for example.
To try and translate that style to a well sorted 928 GTS.... meh, just doesn't work as well for me.
