ribs

So after running for 5 days after doing a head gasket job, the car decided it didn't want to work anymore. I was getting a little bit of squeeling from the a/c/alt. belt (the belt was very very hard to get over the pulleys, and I'm guessing it just expanded a bunch after running the car a while), but yesterday, with the torrential down pours on the east coast, the belt got wet and decided it didn't want to grip the alternator at all any more (this was confirmed by battery only voltage readings of around 11 with headlights on and a constant squeeling sound).

I was able to drive about 55 miles at night in the rain on the battery only (I turned the headlights off for 15 miles of the trip with the hopes of actually making it home) and the car died as I pulled up to my domicile. In the pouring cold rain at night, I jacked the car up, made a 3x5" hole with vice grips in the belly pan to get access to the tensioning rod, and tightened the belt up until it felt tight enough.

The belt felt really smooth on the ribbed part when I touched it (I remember it being significantly grippier)...this is probably from slipping for over an hour on the pulleys and the friction wore all the grip off. I tried starting the car with a jump, and it started, and it was getting a charge from the alt. at idle, but as soon as I started revving the motor, the slipping sound came back and didn't go away, and the car drained its battery in a couple of minutes.

Today it is dry, and I'm hoping that between tightening it and not being wet, the belt will grip and I'll be able to go from my house at school to my house at home.

Is it possible that the belt squeeling sound I heard was trashed bearings in my alternator? I didn't think that the belt would slip when it was properly tensioned, but again, with the grip worn off, it very well may have. The sound was straight old buick belt squeeling...I don't know what trashed bearings sound like.

I'm going to try to get my car running again this afternoon (I'm at school right now with my roommate's car) and hopefully it is just the belts being wet with no grip and all I have to do is replace the belt. If not, the car is going to sit at my house at school until I can get another alternator...maybe next weekend. If the alternator is trashed, I'll be pissed as I just replaced it 3 years ago. Has anyone had trashed alt. bearings before? What does it sound like? Thanks.

t1tec

Did you notice how hot the alternator was? if it was the alt bearings the alternator would be really hot.

ribs

The first time I touched the alternator, it wasn't hot at all, but then again, it sat for 2 hours before I touched it. The next time I checked the belt (and touched the alternator) the car ran for about 5 minutes under normal driving, and it felt like it was at a normal temperature (and it was making the old buick noise the whole time).

Bill

I do not know you and certainly do not want to insult you, but perhaps you need to rethink doing your own repairs.

OUCH!

Mechanics, like any other pursuit can be approached properly or improperly. Take your car to a sloppy shop and I venture to say you will receive sloppy work. Damn dude, a hole in the belly pan with vice grips!!!

First off, throw away the vice grips. They do not belong anywhere near a Porsche. Then use the PROPER tools. Then remove the belly pan to gain access.

The power steering belt and the alternator/ac belt both have a specified tension. This is set using the factory belt gauge. Yes..the same gauge that is required to set the timing belt tension. And like the timing belts, improper tension and things do not function properly.

A loose belt and the belt will slip/glaze/be destroyed. Once a belt is glazed, it is destroyed and must be replaced. Loose belt and the power steering pump/alternator/ac compressor will be underdriven and will not perform as specified. Discharged battery, poor cooling, high steering effort.

An overtightened belt and the belt will be stretched/fibers broken/early failure. Overtightened belts should also be replaced. Overtightened belts and the bearings in the power steering pump/alternator/ac compressor will fail prematurely. Failed bearings do not spin.

Just remember, PATIENCE, understand what you are doing before you do it, use the correct tools, do the job right, or take it to someone that will.

YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT!

ribs

Bill,

I appreciate your concern for my repair job, and I know that there are better and more appropriate ways to get to a belt and tension it, but with what tools I had available to me at the time (a scissors jack, a screw driver, and a pair of vice grips) and the fact that I am stranded 130 miles from my home if I didn't get this fixed, I did the best I could. I could give a **** what my belly pan looks like...all I did was expand one of the access/water drain holes underneath the belts so I could fit the vice grips in there. The belly pan is there to keep debris from getting up in the belts and to keep minor bottom outs from wreaking havoc on the engine, and it will still do its job.

FYI, I used a tensioning tool (kriket) to set the initial tension on the belt (80 lbs I think), but because the belt was sitting in the back of my car in the cold before I put it on, it was shrunken and expanded a lot (I'm guessing) after running for a while. Unless I'm in a pinch (which I was) I will always go through the proper procedures for any car repair (the car runs perfectly, except for the alt. problem, after pulling the head and putting it back on...you can't exactly do that job sloppy and get away with it...everything is torqued & tensioned to spec, and the engine is clean enough to eat off of).

So...anyone want to answer my questions about bearing noise sounding like belt squeeling?

Eric

First off, throw away the vice grips. They do not belong anywhere near a Porsche. Then use the PROPER tools. Then remove the belly pan to gain access.



Vise Grips rule. I consider them essential to any tool kit(at least 2 pair). I use them often(even on the Porsche).

Ribs--sorry about the alt. problem--not sure what cooked bearings sound like, I hope you get it figured out.

Bill

Luke.....That path leads to the DARK side of the force.

The belly pan was installed to improve air flow under the vehicle and thus overall aerodynamics at speed.

Do you give a $hit how your car handles at 165 mph?

Porsche would not spend xxx dollars per unit because of leaves.

Read my post above. The belts will squeal, the bearings will squeal. If the belt is glazed from slipping, I do not care how much you retighten it...it will slip again. Replace it. If you destroyed a bearing, replace the damaged part.

ribs

Well...I've already been 165+ in my car...I don't really need to do it again, so I'm fine for now. So, the belly pan doesn't serve the function to keep debris out of the bottom of the engine bay? Besides, the part of the belly pan I mutilated is covered by the aero pan that goes from the nose of the car to about 1/4 of the way to the belly pan...no harm no foul.

Eric,

The vice grips I used were an original pair (they said "Vice Grips" on them) that my roommate's uncle (who lives downstairs in our duplex) has had since the mid 60's. I find the vice grips are most useful for clamping onto the dead hoodshocks to keep the hood from repeatedly hitting me in the head while I'm working on the car. They also work good for spinning the belt tensioning rod from the middle when you can't get to either side of it with a 15?mm wrench (as was my case).

billybones

hmm. I assume you have AC on that belt? I would check the Ac pulley. It would do a ton of dammage if it stuck on and off.. Maybe yourcompressor gave up the ghost. IT should free wheel. Might be taking to much to turn easily.. at that point you have to either replace the compressor or do a delete..

Peckster

"the car died as I pulled up to my domicile. "


Your home and your domicile aren't the same?

Bearing noise can sound liike a belt.

97xray

Ribs, when I cooked some bearings I would have SWORN that it was a belt sqeal... wrong was I. The belt was kosher, and not too glazed actually, but the roller was all dented / bent and locked in place.
I don't know what to tell you though - it's hard to say what the trouble was without getting in there. You could go the long route and replace the belt and all rollers - but it's a pain if it turns out to be something relatively easy.
Sorry I can't help more.
PS - I LOVE my grandfather's tools; he was a mechanical engineer who spent the better part of his non-work hours restoring karmann ghias. And he had THREE original Vice Grips (mine now). Go figure, I guess they're not too evil!

Mongo

errr might wanna get a rebuilt one now i take it...

BTW off the subject ribs, how ya been doin? haven't seen you on AIM in a couple fortnights.

SoCal Driver

Another parts car in the making.

MM951

Why bash Rich? Far as I'm concerned is its his car, and hes been a member of the forums a long longg time...

Eric

I agree with Mike. ribs had been around a long time, has offered great advice in the past, done a ton of ambitious projects to his car, and has provided some of the most entertaining posts to Rennlist. And he does have a nice 951(saw it in person once).

Someone help the brother out.