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The E30 M3 was a "homologation special". Think Carrera RS vs normal 911 from the 1970's. The 951 is just the premium model within the standard 944 line, like the other M models from the 80's (M5 and M6). These cars are valued higher than the standard models but nothing like the homo car.
I bet if Porsche made an official 951RS for the street it would be up there with the M3 in terms of value.
Perhaps, in the minds of people a "Spec" car is a STREET car that is RACED. Whereas, a "homologation " car is a RACE CAR that the manufacturer had to build X number of "TAMED RACECAR" versions for the street in order to qualify.
I just don't think that argument holds water when there are many other homologation specials that are considerably more rare than the E30 M3 that don't have the crazy surge in prices that they do.
- 190E 16v
- Sierra Cosworth (Escort Cosworth)
- Delta Integrale
- UR Quattro
- 323 GTX
- Celica GT4
The E30 M3 is not rare, they made 16,000 of them, yet they are treated like unicorns, again I say it is all down to hype.
Delta integrale is also a much meaner machine Id have one over m3 any day.
It beat everybody to pulp in its time e30 m3 can't hold a candle to it.
The car was introduced for the 1987 World Rally Championship season and dominated the World Rally Championship, scoring 46 WRC victories overall and winning the constructors' championship a record six times in a row from 1987 to 1992, in addition to drivers' championship titles for Juha Kankkunen (1987 and 1991) and Miki Biasion (1988 and 1989), making Lancia the most successful marque in the history of the WRC and the Delta the most successful car.
This is after group B where dominating force was delta s4. Lancia delta HF integrale is group A rally car and it blasted trough WRC much more dominant and non compromising than e30m3 did in touring championships. e30m3 also rallied alongside delta where it was beaten to pulp.
E30 is superbly balanced, robust while lightweight car, but 944 beats it in those respects, and so does lancia and some other cars too.
Just look at this majestic machine. La macchina bella!
This is after group B where dominating force was delta s4. Lancia delta HF integrale is group A rally car and it blasted trough WRC much more dominant and non compromising than e30m3 did in touring championships. e30m3 also rallied alongside delta where it was beaten to pulp.
E30 is superbly balanced, robust while lightweight car, but 944 beats it in those respects, and so does lancia and some other cars too.
Just look at this majestic machine. La macchina bella!
Now that you've gone full OT, here's me dream weekend track machine -
Isn't it funny how nobody is dreaming about being in a 951. Lol
Or a Spec E30......
Really though, you missed my user handle I guess. And basically, everybody participating already owns a 951.
A good ways back when a few of the Audi engined 951 projects started popping up, I was doing serious research on building a Quattro replica but body parts are practically non existent.
A friend of mine in Ireland warned me off the project.
There's a really crazy documented build a guy did in Europe where he wire framed the whole thing out and patch welded steel sheet until he had the whole body done. Looked like it must have weighed a couple of tons though...
I think you guys are getting off que the lancia and Audi were dominate race cars as was the ford cosworths but these are turbo charged cars who were so fast they were banned or regulated out they also had very little with there street versions the m3 raced for years! Even after production ended it also won the Corsica rally in Wrc the comparison with the 951 is valid in the same grouping of the period but one was a race car the other a trans continental bruiser. the 951 was also $6k more expensive
Lots of cars are ridiculously priced right now...methinks a correction will come soon. Look at Ferrari 308s for christ's sake--ridiculous values over the past year and would get smoked by a Camry today. I like the e30 M3 but not as much as the e34 M5, the best all around car I have ever owned to date [and still priced within reason, but probably not for long].
I think you guys are getting off que the lancia and Audi were dominate race cars as was the ford cosworths but these are turbo charged cars who were so fast they were banned or regulated out they also had very little with there street versions the m3 raced for years! Even after production ended it also won the Corsica rally in Wrc the comparison with the 951 is valid in the same grouping of the period but one was a race car the other a trans continental bruiser. the 951 was also $6k more expensive
Lets be clear, the E30 M3 won 1 group N tarmac rally. Hardly a significant win, was just a random footnote more than anything.
And the Cosworth and Audi I am thinking of (both DTM cars) shared as much in common with their street car brethren as the E30 M3 and 190E 16v.
I was just talking with some E30 guys yesterday and they all know others or have them with engine swaps. They said the ones with the original M20B25 get all the attention now. Funny how what's cool changes.
Poor BeerBurner, if you would have gone with the M3E30 it would be worth four times that now.
Stooge, I'm sure we have a few friends in common.
I'll drop my toe in here. A stock 2.3L S14 engine is (as others have said) pretty wheezy, a bit like the modern Honda F20 engine in the S2000. However, in evo-trim (2.5L) it is pretty fun, the extra displacement really helps fill in the mid-range power.
That being said, the M20B25 in the SpecE30 cars, is another great engine that is (for now) often overlooked. I've developed a number of stroker kits for them which definitely turns it into a hotrod. Dimensionally they aren't all that different from the old Datsun L-block engines.
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Maybe I'm getting old and my memory is fading, but I don't remember E30 M3's being close in performance to an 88TS or 89T on track. Weren't they about 190 hp?
They raced in the IMSA Firestone Firehawk series in the GS class with the 944S2's, and were not competitive against the S2's.
The E36 M3s were capable of a similar pace on track as 89 951s.
The E36 M3 lightweights were similar to 87+ Turbo Cup/Escort cars in performance.
06-15-2017, 01:32 PM
