Koni Insert Confusion
03-10-2017, 11:41 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Koni Insert Confusion
Hi Guys,
I'm pretty pissed right now because I just ordered my brand new Koni shocks, weltmeister springs and torsion bars for my '84 944; and when I pulled the front inserts out of the box, they don't have a bolt hole on the bottom. From my understanding, the hacksaw mod requires drilling a hole in the bottom of the cut struts and then tightening the shock down with the provided bolt. Mine has no provided bolt, but Paragon's site says this insert is compatible with an '84. Pictures are attached. Are these meant to be welded in? Can someone let me know if I have to send these back and wait another week? Am I missing something?
Thanks,
-Mike
I'm pretty pissed right now because I just ordered my brand new Koni shocks, weltmeister springs and torsion bars for my '84 944; and when I pulled the front inserts out of the box, they don't have a bolt hole on the bottom. From my understanding, the hacksaw mod requires drilling a hole in the bottom of the cut struts and then tightening the shock down with the provided bolt. Mine has no provided bolt, but Paragon's site says this insert is compatible with an '84. Pictures are attached. Are these meant to be welded in? Can someone let me know if I have to send these back and wait another week? Am I missing something?
Thanks,
-Mike
03-11-2017, 12:05 AM
#2
Nordschleife Master
Paragon are correct and those are the right inserts for your 84 which has a screwed cap holding in the inserts. You don't have to cut your struts, only the 87+ struts require cutting, you just unscrew the cap, remove your old inserts and put these in.
03-11-2017, 08:06 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
Good to know, I was a little confused myself after reading multiple posts here regarding front struts on a '84.
Can you post a few pics of the install when you get to it?
Can you post a few pics of the install when you get to it?
03-11-2017, 08:59 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
Doing these on an early car is much easier than on a late car.
On the early, it's just a matter of removing the strut, unscrewing the big top nut, and swapping inserts. (heck, you might not even have to take it off of the spindle, just disconnect it from the upper strut mount, that way you can leave your alignment intact)
On the late, the whole thing comes out for some fiddly measuring, cutting, drilling, disgusting ancient shock oil spraying everywhere, swearing, cleaning, painting, reinstalling, and re-aligning.
Consider yourself lucky!
On the early, it's just a matter of removing the strut, unscrewing the big top nut, and swapping inserts. (heck, you might not even have to take it off of the spindle, just disconnect it from the upper strut mount, that way you can leave your alignment intact)
On the late, the whole thing comes out for some fiddly measuring, cutting, drilling, disgusting ancient shock oil spraying everywhere, swearing, cleaning, painting, reinstalling, and re-aligning.
Consider yourself lucky!
03-11-2017, 12:31 PM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
Slomo, I had read about both methods, supposedly you can just remove the nut at the top of the shock while the car is on the ground, jack it up to take pressure off the spring, then compress the shock and tilt the whole thing out of the wheel well. No spring compressors or change in alignment! Btw I'm in Ann Arbor. Greg's, if I remember I'll take some pics. It's currently 20 degrees here and my garage is unheated or I'd be out there today. Maybe sometime in the coming week. I'm still waiting on my turbo front sway bar and the torsion bars don't get here until Wednesday.
03-17-2017, 12:02 PM
#7
Racer
Thread Starter
Installation
Hey guys,
I installed the front suspension last night. It was pretty cut and dry but I'll walk through how I did it as I haven't seen a good tutorial on this. For the record, I used 200# Weltmeister lowering springs and koni adjustable insert shocks (see part number in first post).
First: raise the front of the car, remove the sway bar (I had heard this step might be uneccesary, but I don't think I could have rotated the springs and shocks out below the wheel well if I hadn't fully removed the bar)
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1489760075
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1489760075
Next, let the car back down and remove the 22mm nuts that hold the top of the shock to the shock tower. A torque gun is reccomended, so I didn't even bother trying with a breaker bar.
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1489760075
You'll get the nut a ways up and then it'll start spinning the shock and you won't be able to back it off anymore. My KYB's had an 8mm flat on top so I employed this method:
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1489760075
With the nuts off, jack the front of the car back up. The wheels are gonna pull a Back to the Future and fold under the car so don't go too far up or your shocks could hit your wheel wells.
WARNING: read this whole step before you do it. Remove the wheels, being very careful not the let the hub and A arm swing out as far as it can go. The two things that restrict movement is this direction are your brake line and the wire for your brake wear sensor, not things you want holding up your hub. I reccomend getting a small jack stand under the brake shield or the caliper to help hold it up.
Next, (preferably with help from a friend, doing this alone was a workout) compress the shock a little and tilt it out of the vehicle until you can pull the spring off it. Also remove the bump stop and top hat for the spring. You should be looking at this:
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1489760075
To get the cap off the strut, the only thing I can reccomend is a pipe wrench. Picked up a $10 12" wrench from meijer (michigan walmart) and it got them off no problem.
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1489760075
Tilt the strut outward again and pull the shock out of it (won't always come out easily)
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1489760075
The KYB's had a small metal cap that goes on top of the shock just under the strut cap; the Koni's had a ring.
Installation is the opposite of removal, with a few exceptions.
Drop the new shocks in (if you're using Koni's and are worried about having room to get them under the fender, compress them while out of vehicle and turn the adjuster to full stiff, this will cause them to stay compressed for a few minutes), don't forget the small metal ring.
Put on the strut cap with the pipe wrench.
Drop the spring on (note that there is a certain orientation that the spring goes into the top and bottom mounts; the mounting face has an indent for the end of the spring coil).
Put the bump stops and top spring hat on and wait for the shock to expand to full length (aim it for the strut tower hole if you can).
The next part is where I would have appreciated a friend: you need to get the nut on top of the shock to hold the assembly in the shock tower while you put the wheels on. Use a jack to jack up the assembly enough to loosely put the nut on. I had my jack under the car as I was using my jack stands to hold up the hubs; so I had to lift the entire assembly with one arm and tighten the nut with the other.
Put the wheels back on, lower the car, and tighten the shock nuts. You won't be able to use a torque wrench without the shock spinning unless you're a magician or a ghost. I just did my best to get them tight using one wrench to hold the shock and another to turn the nut.
When I get my car out of the garage I'll take some pics of the final product, but suffice to say it's noticably lower, my tires might rub (215 65 15), and I need a lower profile jack or some 2x4's.
I installed the front suspension last night. It was pretty cut and dry but I'll walk through how I did it as I haven't seen a good tutorial on this. For the record, I used 200# Weltmeister lowering springs and koni adjustable insert shocks (see part number in first post).
First: raise the front of the car, remove the sway bar (I had heard this step might be uneccesary, but I don't think I could have rotated the springs and shocks out below the wheel well if I hadn't fully removed the bar)
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1489760075
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1489760075
Next, let the car back down and remove the 22mm nuts that hold the top of the shock to the shock tower. A torque gun is reccomended, so I didn't even bother trying with a breaker bar.
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1489760075
You'll get the nut a ways up and then it'll start spinning the shock and you won't be able to back it off anymore. My KYB's had an 8mm flat on top so I employed this method:
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1489760075
With the nuts off, jack the front of the car back up. The wheels are gonna pull a Back to the Future and fold under the car so don't go too far up or your shocks could hit your wheel wells.
WARNING: read this whole step before you do it. Remove the wheels, being very careful not the let the hub and A arm swing out as far as it can go. The two things that restrict movement is this direction are your brake line and the wire for your brake wear sensor, not things you want holding up your hub. I reccomend getting a small jack stand under the brake shield or the caliper to help hold it up.
Next, (preferably with help from a friend, doing this alone was a workout) compress the shock a little and tilt it out of the vehicle until you can pull the spring off it. Also remove the bump stop and top hat for the spring. You should be looking at this:
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1489760075
To get the cap off the strut, the only thing I can reccomend is a pipe wrench. Picked up a $10 12" wrench from meijer (michigan walmart) and it got them off no problem.
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1489760075
Tilt the strut outward again and pull the shock out of it (won't always come out easily)
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1489760075
The KYB's had a small metal cap that goes on top of the shock just under the strut cap; the Koni's had a ring.
Installation is the opposite of removal, with a few exceptions.
Drop the new shocks in (if you're using Koni's and are worried about having room to get them under the fender, compress them while out of vehicle and turn the adjuster to full stiff, this will cause them to stay compressed for a few minutes), don't forget the small metal ring.
Put on the strut cap with the pipe wrench.
Drop the spring on (note that there is a certain orientation that the spring goes into the top and bottom mounts; the mounting face has an indent for the end of the spring coil).
Put the bump stops and top spring hat on and wait for the shock to expand to full length (aim it for the strut tower hole if you can).
The next part is where I would have appreciated a friend: you need to get the nut on top of the shock to hold the assembly in the shock tower while you put the wheels on. Use a jack to jack up the assembly enough to loosely put the nut on. I had my jack under the car as I was using my jack stands to hold up the hubs; so I had to lift the entire assembly with one arm and tighten the nut with the other.
Put the wheels back on, lower the car, and tighten the shock nuts. You won't be able to use a torque wrench without the shock spinning unless you're a magician or a ghost. I just did my best to get them tight using one wrench to hold the shock and another to turn the nut.
When I get my car out of the garage I'll take some pics of the final product, but suffice to say it's noticably lower, my tires might rub (215 65 15), and I need a lower profile jack or some 2x4's.
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03-17-2017, 12:46 PM
#9
an offset oxygen sensor wrench works well for torqueing the top mount.
it is best to work the shock a few cycles before installation to move the bubbles upward.
on the later style upper mounts, great time to inspect, clean and re-lube the bearings.
it is best to work the shock a few cycles before installation to move the bubbles upward.
on the later style upper mounts, great time to inspect, clean and re-lube the bearings.
03-17-2017, 04:01 PM
#10
Racer
Thread Starter
I thought about an O2 sensor wrench but I don't have one. I played with shocks a bunch to test the adjustability before I put them in, so I guess I'm probably good there. Re-lubing the bearings would have been a good idea but I honestly didn't know about them until I had the old shocks out.
