ealoken

Is the plug Cables in the right place?

MistaX

It doesn't run THAT badly.

The idle used to be like a V8 with a lopey cam, now it's a slight hunt.

I should rename the thread, it's not undrivable it just sucks to drive now. Something still isn't right and I don't know what it is.

924srr27l

These kits are New to the N/A and have taken Rogue a fair amount time to develop I'd Imagine? surely there must be some support and assistance with any set up or running issues?


Is anyone else on here got one fitted and running good?


R

V2Rocket

I had one for maybe 2 years? It took some teething time to get dialed in but it was fine after that.
I sold mine before Lindsey came out with the current version so I would hope that they have all the bugs figured out by now?

V2Rocket

Backfire makes me think still running lean somehow.
How did you test to 50 inches of vacuum? Do you have a high-power vac pump or did you hook a gauge to the engine?

No way the engine would pull 50 inches on its own. that is -25 psi!

MistaX

My bad, that was 50 cm/hg. It's ~20 in/hg

And that's with a T'd gauge on the FPR line.

V2Rocket

Gonna say...you've got the best piston rings and valve seals in the world at 50 inches lol.

So it idles poorly and has poor power/hesitation, but will rev up OK.
It will drive but low power and backfires...

I'll think through this one over a 6-pack...

odonnell

For the record I had similar issues with my NA-tune a few years ago. It drove perfect and then one day it just went to crap. I think there's some sort of parameter in the tune that's very sensitive and it doesn't take much to throw everything off. I remember trying everything and it would idle great but sometimes would backfire and die...everything checked out fine.

MistaX

It doesn't have low power exactly, because when I rev it, it'll actually torque the chassis, and it's never done that before. So I'm going to say it's actually got the most power it's ever had.

I didn't floor it because I only drove it a couple blocks to test it, but was shifting at 4K and a solid single pop in the exhaust. Not a loud gunshot backfire, but that "fireball in the exhaust" style backfire. Consistent, every shift. It would backfire like that occasionally with the AFM but a lot more random.
That in itself is fine, but when getting back on the throttle during/after the shift, is awful. It just doesn't do anything for a second, resulting in a very weird feeling of engine braking while hitting the gas.




Edit: Drove it again, low RPM misfire until about 3k RPM, then it smooths out. Floored it, it's pretty quick, revs smoothly at WOT but it doesn't feel like it's 100%... Idle is still very sputtery. Tried adjusting throttle body idle screw, and it really doesn't make a difference.

MistaX

Re-did the pressure test. Only place I hear air going is out the exhaust.

Only option is to throw parts at it, I guess. Ordering a new WBO2, fuel pressure gauge (this will be #3), FPR and damper. If I can't solve it with these & wiring the new narrowband O2, Ostrich 2.0 next.

924srr27l

It really shows how good the 1980's Bosch system really is if a modern system is so sensitive and vulnerable etc...


My car when complete and running would not idle at all, and the mapper
spend at least an hour on the rolling road just tuning the Idle part of the map, which you'll understand comes into play every time you lift right off the gas at all speeds and not just whilst idling! He had the rear wheels turning on the rollers in 5th at a very low 1500rpm and spent ages applying small amounts of throttle many times and tweaking lots of figures on his laptop to find perfection.


Surely with this NA tune and any and every other aftermarket system I read about on here and UK forums once they are done , that's it no more faffing about or unreliability ?


Unyet there seems to be a lot do read about with nothing but set-up issues and problems etc..


It puts me right off ever considering a different system to the AFM, especially when mine performs so well.


However I'm lucky as I'll only ever return to the Chip Wizard should I ever change the management (after asking him what to go for?) with a Twin cam head and ITB's etc..and I have 100% faith he'll sort it all out in one day again with no issues thereafter.


R

MistaX

A MAF is objectively better by design than an AFM. That is fact. The job of both are to simply feed the DME/ECU information about the air entering the engine, and the MAF is a superior design because it doesn't restrict the air entering nearly as much as the AFM design. Secondly there are no physical moving parts to wear out in a MAF as there are in the AFM.

A "mail order" tune is never going to beat a tune done on a dyno specific to that car though.

I don't expect the default tune featured on the NA-Tune chip to be 100% correct, but I do expect the car to run properly on it. Not making all 10/10ths of it's power or potential, but at least get around the block without a misfire.

924srr27l

The maf is a Hot wire isn't it ? and shows difference in temperature resistance? does more or less volume of air change the temperature or?


The AFM has a Temp sensor I think and a Volume / Load mechanism (The door) it also works a little like a twin choke in a carburettor only opening due to load and throttle position from the throttle butterfly and your right foot.


A Smaller opening is better at low RPM's than a big wide open inlet you only have to look at some of the modern Variable inlet systems to see that the inlet diameter is important for low down torque.


For forced induction and tuned yes I can understand that these Air greedy machines need as much as possible, and a change in management and the Inlet system will yield good results, I seem to recollect up to 300bhp on a 951 the AFM was still good.


I'll try real hard not to go there 100% but the crap flying around my build and how **** poor the AFM was etc...and this restrictive thing which does the rounds on the Uk and USA forums is not entirely correct. It's said in the tone by many that it's such a tardy, useless, terrible design etc...and I'm sure without going back to my post it's was touted by many that it would not be capable of producing anything much more than 175bhp or similar...Unyet it surprised even me @ 205bhp but also 205Ft lbs.


My trick mapper explained exactly at the time what it does and why it's actually a very good component, I wish I'd of written it all down because it made good sense and not only was the AFM poo pooed but also the ECU which also came up trumps and responded with a 26bhp improvement after 8 hour of work.




The hotwire MAF sensor's fail on modern cars. they are quite cheap component, and in comparison to the Bosch Motronic system from the 1980's this certainly was not cheap, cheerful and poorly made.

R

raleighBahn

I don't know the NA tune, but the A-tune certainly changed timing a little.

Any chance your timing was already off a little bit (in stock form) and the more aggressive tune exposes it?

MistaX

I have a stock cam gear, so without being a tooth off, how could this happen?
Was pretty **** about everything when I did the timing belt a couple years ago.