I LOL at all of the ozone hole crap. If you have ever looked closely at the entire south pole area -- not just the Antarctic -- you will see some of the highest ozone readings in a ring around the "hole" in the ozone. Yes the ring is where the sun hits. The hole is where it doesn't.

Then there is the magic chart. It started out as a monthly graph of ozone readings for one year then was mirrored and rotated and relabeled as yearly reading of the same month. The "art" of junk science. Think I have the links for it somewhere.

 

If you were still in the keys I'd take you up on it

To me Arizona is awful lot of beach, no water.

 

You can't race the Porsche on water.

Sam

 

Found the links. This first one is the actual data transcribed into a monthly cart.

http://www.atm.damtp.cam.ac.uk/peopl...ozonehole.html

This second one is the same data "massauged" into a gross misrepresentation. Note that it has been mirrored and rotated.

http://www.beyonddiscovery.org/Inclu...dy.asp?ID=1788

If that doesn't work the link to it is on this page.

http://www.beyonddiscovery.org/conte....page.asp?I=90

 

Supposed to be in the low 80's here. hehehe

 

Just for a second opinion, here's some stuff off the Canadian government's ozone site.

Can ozone depletion be stopped and reversed?
Yes. If concentrations of ozone-destroying chemicals are reduced, the natural balance between ozone creation and destruction can be restored. However, this might require the complete elimination of CFCs, halons, carbon tetrachloride, methyl chloroform, HCFCs, and methyl bromide. In late 1991, scientists estimated that even with the current global schedule to eliminate ozone-destroying substances, the ozone layer would not return to 'normal' (pre-1980 levels) until the middle of the next century.

 

so its only in the mid 60's this week, still driving the p-car...until the dreaded white stuff yano.

 

The US and USSR/Russia have had submarines patrolling the region under the North Polar ice cap for decades. They've been noting ice thickness in the areas the pass through during this entire time (you would too if getting fresh air ment piercing it!), and there's been a definate thinning in places.

Weather patterns in different regions have shifted. Whatever you choose to blame it on, 100+ degree weather for 5 months in AZ isn't normal, nor was the exceptionally long rainy season northern CA had, nor is an early snow. Yes, the idea that suddenly the global climate will just heat up is silly. Weather patterns involve a complex mixing of warn and cool, moist and dry. When one spot heats up, others may also heat up, or get more or less precipitation, or even get colder.

You may choose to believe that car exhuast or industrial waste can't possibly be causing this. It may be true. Maybe its just a natural cycle that will eventually keep you east-coasters frozen 10 months out of the year But, something is going on.

Either way, many pollutants DO dirty the air and water that we use, so its still a good idea to cut down on it. I sure don't want a Brown Cloud in North America.

BTW, we've still got dry summer weather here in CA. It'll start raining soon, but the P-car doesn't have to get put away for the winter

 

Peck

The problem is all that is based on bad science. And the real problem is not that it bans chemicals or anything, that just costs us extra money (If you want to know the real reason CFC's are banned, examine the patent issues, and when the patents expired), the problem is that it takes time, money, and effort away from real enviormental issues.

Just so you know. Ozone can't be destroyed. Mater is niether created or destroyed. And even at that Ozone is an interesting animal. Our UV protection comes from the creation and and mainting of Ozone. Ozone is O3 or 3 atoms of oxygen in a molecule. Normal O2 (the natural state of oxygen) in the presence of UV light known as UVB approx 290 to 315 nanometers in wavelenght will bring the Oxygen into a higher energy state, jumping the electron up to a different covalence level, the natural state for this energy level is 3 atoms to a molecule, instead of 2. Hence, O3. Take away the UVB radiation, the atoms drop to thier natural state and become O2 again.

The lack of O3 means a lack of UVB radiation. The concern would be a lack of oxygen O2, and Chlorine "could" bond with O2 (Chlorine is very reactive), but there is no proof that this is happening.

Also they say that the problem with CFC's is that they bring Chlorine up into the upper atmosphere. May be true, but hard to believe as CFC's are fairly heavy complex molecules. They also say the problem is at the poles. Doesn't make a lot of sense because any CFC that go up in my latitutde would never make it north due to the corolis effect and prevailing winds.

However all the Vocanoes at the south pole do spew loads of chlorine into the upper atmosphere. More in a week than we produce in a decade.

 

Jessa.

Latest study shows that the ice coverage in Antartica has actually increased in the past year.

And I don't disagree that we need to get a handle on pollution. I just think that would should put our efforts into things that make a difference.

In the past 20 years various groups have been railing that we not use CFC's in aerosol products. Fact of the matter they were banned form use in aerosol products in 1977. So people were actually saying to not use hairspray because of the CFC's that weren't even in it.

LIke I said. Lets concentrate on things that make a diference, not chemically inert products like CFC's.

The weather may be changing, but the problem isn't global warming. Richard Stallman just broke his arm going to a conference in Finland where there is apparenly large accumulations of snow and ice, unseasonably early.

 

Hey Sid....
Just remember the problem to everything is global Warming.

It gets hot ... Blame global warming
It does not rain ... blame global warming
it get too cold ... blame global warming
there is too much rain... blame global warming
you timing belt breaks... blame global warming


You see the solution is to prevent global warming that is so obviously caused by man. Why? Because we are fithly polluting animals that just act to destroy and use up our tiny fragile earth. Of course the worst invention know to man is automobile as allows us to pollute and destroy our enviroment even more. If we would give up or cars, guns and property rights the earth could be saved and all people could live in peace and harmony.

Sid... you so obviously don't get it.

 

YEah.

They've been saying that the weather is going to be wierd for the next few years because of Global Warming.

Well I geuss if you believe the world is warming up, really really cold weather is wierd.

 

Blah blah blah. It's all a government plot to take away our freedom.

 

Well I though Global Warming was a plot by the Canadians to make their country a bit more livable.

... sorry I had throw that one out

 

I wish. It will help extend our growing season too. We had thanksgiving two weeks ago up here.

Anyhow, there's no snow up here this week. Must be working, eh?

Here's some more info from the U.S. National Academy of Sciences. Crackpots all.

Although, two decades ago, most scientists would have scoffed at the notion that industrial chemicals could destroy ozone high up in the atmosphere, researchers now know that chlorine creates the hole by devouring ozone molecules. Years of study on the ground, in aircraft, and from satellites has conclusively identified the source of the chlorine: human-made chemicals called chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) that have been used in spray cans, foam packaging, and refrigeration materials.

For more:

http://www.beyonddiscovery.org/conte....page.asp?I=77