yorkee

Sorry, a bit off topic.
To be fair, it's not a fair Jap vs Euro comparison to compare between the Ducati twin and a Suzuki 400 I4, or most of the SS out there.

Twin engine has something magical rather it is Italian or Jap or American. To be fair, the Ducky should compare to RC51 / TL or even SV.

Now get back on topic, I would pick the Tobaru in a heartbeat if I have to buy a new, fun car. Miata (except NC) would be next. I will pick a Lotus Elise only if I am rich. I am happy enough to see momentum car still exist, following at least 1/2 of Colin Chapman's "add lightness" philosophy in 21 centuries.

924srr27l

Yes I agree looking underneath cars gives you a very good understanding how well built they are for strength and for sure pretty much all Jap stuff is thin and flimsy and just doesn't look inspiring strong or good enough to handle too much!

The other note is a Porsche can do all these attributes, all well.......

Daily drive, long trips, trackday and street racing...and cope and last well other a few exceptions where some people have not maintained then well...etc..


Get the base model so good, it can be evolved many times and cope with more power and many upgrades and changes........

jr10cross

again yes off topic,
The fact that Italians choose to develop around the V twin sums it all up. They don't go the cheap route and that makes something very unique. Don't like Ducati, hear a MV Agusta pass you at full chap. Yes these bikes cost a lot more money, but they refuse to compromise their heritage. I love that stuff. I love the fact that Porsche was looking to phase out the 911 in the late 70s and replace it with the 928, but enthusiast responded and they listened. They found out how to work around the cars issues and now look at the heritage.

My friend has an RC51, it's a really nice bike, really nice. But it just doesn't exude the passion, the glance bump bump bump bump heart beat, the fineness of a Italian bike.

With stupid globalization, everything has merged to some degree. You just don't get the same character dynamics in different auto makers your once did. I hate it. Sure BRZ/FRS and the like are more reliable and cheap, but I'm not Japanese, the experience is more important and remember-able. I drive my cars over 80km. I cruise for fun and I want to do it moderately comfortable. I like my metal thick. When I'm lovin on her I don't want to accidentally hit a hollow area and get the Pepsi can dent sound.

Side-note: I like the Lotus, but my disdain for Toyota makes it so hard to drive a car that has the heart of one. No matter how much sense it makes to have a reliable (almost)supercar. Again I'm expressing a lot of my opinion and we all know what opinion are like. LOL

V2Rocket

I have long-since concluded that, if ever I needed to replace the 944 (Odin forbid it)...

I'll buy a Viper.
8-liters of volcanic fury bolted to your ***, with not even a usable trunk to weigh you down...magnificent.

jr10cross

If you want theater, that's the car to get. Every time I sit in one the car reminds me, " I can kill you if I want to." There is definitely a sense of occasion every time you drive one.

goatfarmerdave

If you want to get a reliable daily driver and maybe the occasional track day and you like the style,go for it. If track is more your style and it is a tighter course opposed to a larger track the 944 will keep up and probably overtake the brz all day long for 5 to 10 times cheaper than the bra. As far as a 944 turbo, the brz is merely a pest to be swatted aside. IMHO

924srr27l

Or wait for this to go production?



R

BoulderGeek

Goodness, that concept car is gorgeous. Looks like an Aston DB10 was the Daddy.

I wasn't going to bring bikes into this, but they are what I know a lot more about.

I have had a couple of BMWs, and have driven just about every Ducati made in the 90s and 2000s.

I do appreciate the handcrafted, more raw and unique qualities of European bikes, including KTMs. The overwhelming complexity of modern electronics seems to be a mixed blessing. A friend has the new BMW S1000XR; amazing all-around handling and power, but so weird with clutchless shifting up and down, traction control, wheelie control, etc.

For my money, one of my passions has been Honda VFRs. I have had three, and probably my favorite was the 1993 VFR750F. Carbon 4-into-1, single sided swingarm, race pedigree V4. Iconic looks.

But, the one that I have kept is the 2004 VFR800ABS. The difference is definitely a feel of analog versus digital. The newer bike is computerized, and has lost some of the soul. But, overall it handles better, fast tours better, and puts down more power. Plus, parts are readily obtainable. Plastic on a Pearl Crystal White 93 VFR are unobtanium.

That sort of sums up my current thinking process. I love the 944. But, I think I will have more of a sense of completeness with a Cayman. Until the finances come around, however, the 944 is great to have, alongside the VFR.

924srr27l

Aston !!!

What the.........

R

Arominus

The japanese didn't go cheap either, my 82 suzuki GS650 had a 4 piece crank running on roller bearings. That was super expensive to make.

yorkee

If I was bind-folded and given a duck, ape, RC8, and a RC51, let me ride it without knowing what I am riding (obviously, unfolded myself when I am riding), I am sure they are all exciting in their own way.

Not going to argue about the V-twin (or L-twin in Ducati case) heritage. If its a heritage thing, jap should take out the 2-stroke GP replica to compare in that arena. (or maybe some v4 in Honda's case)

I like to believe engineering should be exercised without border, which is why I love lotus, early year of Ape, and care less about all 944's Audi/VW comments.

You are close enough. We could sit down somewhere in Woodbridge or Hell talk about cars and bikes all afternoon without hijacking this thread

jr10cross

no your right that is true. No knock on Japanese bikes, heck I own a Suzuki myself. There are definitely special models back in the early days of japanese bikes that are unique but I'm just saying I used to work in a bike shop with old Ducati, Moto Guzzi, BSA, BMW bikes and they just had something more. Everything was done in passion and not on efficiency.

I don't want the bike or car that is trying to take down the Giant that already exists, I want the car that set the bar. I want the Hayabusa, not the Zx-14. I want the S-class, not the LS400. I want the the 944, not the Rx-7.

People aren't usually moved to tears when seeing a copy of a beautiful painting, the real thing demands appreciation. The Japanese are king of making things better and more efficient, but kids don't draw hundreds of pictures of efficient cars. An MR-2 will never rest as a pin-up in a kids bedroom, because it hasn't been innovated. (Except the GTR...... I love one got to have one please please please let them de-appreciate )Their cars are usually a copy of a better car. In my humble opinion that is the sum of their product. I have never seen a German or Italian copy. The creators passion flows through the character of the car, like the brush stroke of Van Gogh's paintings.

jr10cross

Any time brother any time

yorkee

BMW S1000rr ! Sorry can't help to bust it

Never thought RX7 copy 944 even though their 2nd gen looks the same. I think people like RX7 not only because of their light weight nimbleness, but also the rotary heart, which is very unique in it's own way.

jr10cross

U got me, I forgot about that one. LOL

I loved my unique dirty fingernails from check the oil level every fill up in my Rx8. Haha. It is a cool engine and it did actually feel kind of special. Totally not practical but that was a plus for the car.