Luis de Prat

Hella H4s came stock on the Euro spec 944 cars. I have them on the 951 and only the CIBIÉs from IceShark I put in the S2 come close to how nicely made those lenses are.

IceShark

Dan, the short answer is yes but it also depends on which Hella lenses you get. There is a DOT (US Department of Transportation) lens called the Hella VisionPlus that uses an H4 bulb. You don't want these for sure. They are also known as VisionMinus.

The used Hella E-Codes that Marc was selling were the #70472. They are better than what you probably have on the car but I wouldn't get them if you are spending that much money on a new set of lenses. If you want to go with Hella get the Supers #95098. These are about impossible to find in North America though, much less at a "cheap" price. Another option is the Cibie E-Code. Both the Hella Super and Cibie are more or less the same. But the Cibie is hard to find also.

So those two are your two main options if you want to go first class and plan on spending around $150, maybe a little more, by the time you get done with bulbs and shipping. I have some more Cibies on a boat somewhere in the Atlantic if you want them when they finally arrive.

Marc Gelefsky

When I sold those Hellas (A year ago!!!) I replaced then with the Cibies I got from Ice shark, they where a big improvment!

Luis de Prat

I just love those thick, flat lenses on the German made Euro H4s. Don't know how they would take to the full boat IceShark upgrade, but they seem very high quality.

jeeper31

How are the Hella H4s from Pelican?

Marc: Did youget my PM about the bumper?

IceShark

Luis, the flat faced lenses are for the mini headlight wiper arms to squeegee off the lens easy.

You do raise a legit point on taking heat of an overwatted bulb being driven with full voltage. Plastic composite lenses just melt. The glass and metal lenses can have the adhesive fail and the lens face falls off. So paying for quality materials does really matter.

Luis de Prat

Does that mean the H4s will or will not hold up to the full boat IceShark upgrade? I'd really like to pop 100W bulbs in there and use the stock Euro lenses on the 951.

IceShark

Luis, I don't know what stock Euro lenses you are talking about. The Euro Cibies you got for the cab will certainly hold up. There are so many of those out there I would certainly hear about any delamination problem. And I also run them.

I do know that other lenses won't hold up as I have seen it and some officials from an unnamed country also mentioned it. And they were rather pissed off since they were using them on their private cars.

If you want a flat face, call the manufacturer and ask them if they will take 90 watt heat. Or since you are a well off guy, I guess you can just try them on a one off basis and toss it off to a learning experience if they fail.

You know, there are a couple Rennlist members that have pulled the lens out with 90 watt bulbs in them and fried an egg on the lens face. They do get hot enough to think about these issues.

Zero10

Hmm, I did not know that those Hella lenses were rare. I saw a set the other day, 2 lenses, and 2 55/60W hella bulbs for $80 CDN, and I passed over them. They were the ones you speak of, the Hella Super's. If they are on par with the Cibie's, then perhaps I will invest in the set.

The flat-faced E-Code lenses are rather nice. I have a friend with a euro-spec 83 944, and putting his car beside mine, the difference in lighting is night and day. It's stupid how little light the 7" sealed beam lights put out!

Luis de Prat

The lenses I'm talking about are the flat Hella H4s that say "Made in Germany" on the bottom. They came stock on my 951 and all Euro 944s, I believe. My point is that, unlike with my U.S. spec S2, I would like to keep the stock lenses on the 951 because they appear to be very high quality and the car is "bone stock."

As for giving trial-and-error a shot, a person's wherewithal is always relative (my cars are cheap for a reason), and I don't see the point in burning out the stock equipment if an expert like yourself doesn't believe it will hold up.

97xray

Luis, I have two sets of the Euros (one I just bought and one original to the car), both are Euro. Neither are really "flat" on the front of the lense. Weird. I wonder if I'm missing something here. I actually purchased the replacement set FROM Germany for a RoW car, and the originals are really orignal, no US DOT change was made to them upon import.

Would you be able to take some pics?
I would as well and we could compare.

Luis de Prat

Jake, about 2 years ago I bought a used set of Euro Hella H4s from Ian's Euro Parts, in Florida. They were also flat and identical to the lenses on my 951.

I put them on my 83 and one broke in a fenderbender (Caribbean drivers...), but I still have the other and can post a pic later.

97xray

Great, I'll try to snap some pics tonight or tomorrow night.
Thanks.
Jake

Tom R.

Dan,
Do the 70476 Hellas sold here http://www.classicgarage.com/classic...7rounh4he.html throw off a different beam then the Hella super 95098 or is it in the construction?

I had the Hella DOT legal for motorcycles only in my RX7 and had a similar Bosch light in my red S2.

I guess I had the supers in my RX7 because they were much more expensive in 85 than in 00.

IceShark

Tom, the supers do have a different beam pattern than the 70476. They put more of the light down on the road. I don't know why Hella superceeded and kept both lenses in production .... I suppose they may have wanted to keep using the mold equipment for the 70476 since it was fully amortized and was "free" from an internal cost standpoint. Similar to what Bridgestone does with some of their tires like the RE730.

Now when you say DOT legal for motorcycles you need to be careful exactly what you are talking about. E-Code lenses are not DOT legal for cars in the USA but they are for bikes. Why they are legal for bikes raises an interesting question. Is it because bikes need better light if they only have one headlight?

Canada they are legal for everything. It is really a messed up system considering all the wildly varing lenses and performance, especially with all the new aerodynamic or design plastic lenses that are specific to a certain car model. But you can tell if they are E-Code if you look for an E-(number) on the lens face. The number will be the country the lenses were certified in.

Jake, the 70476 lenses aren't really totally flat if you laid a straight edge on them but close enough for a wiper blade which is the point. I've got some old ones here that I know are European that I use to test the wiring harness when completed and the curvature is probably 1/2" from center to edge. So they are still convex, just not as much as some lenses.

Zero10, if you are sure you saw the Hella Supers for $80 Canadian for a pair at retail get them as fast as you can and try them out. Something is very wrong with that price as it is way too low. Last I checked, they were retailing for around 150 UDS. Stolen lenses, someone clearing out inventory, defective, who knows. Just make sure they are not the VisionPlus as those can retail around 80 USD for a pair.