Jason_86_951

Just curious.
They usually stick me into B-Prepared. I've heard that in the PCA or SCCA, there might not even be a class that I fit into because of my mods.
Please post your class and the mods that put you there.
Thanks
Jason

Bryans951

I am in ASP (A Street Prepared). Here is a link to the rules and class my model.

SCCA Class Rules

Z-man

For my PCA region, (Northern NJ) I run S7-V (Stock 944S, 944S2, 951, 951S, 968 - Veteran class). In SCCA, I run B-Stock. For the Zone 1 autox in October, (sponsored by Metro NY region) I will be in P9 (951S, 944S2, 968).

Here is my LONG list of mods:
M030 19mm rear sway bar (factory option)
Factory installed sport shocks (Koni Yellows)
KFP Magnum gold brake pads (stock rotors)
R-compound tires (Pirelli P-Zero C's: 225/50-16 front, 245/45-16 rear)

IMHO, stock autox classes ROCK!
-Z.

Ag951

I don't see why they put you in prepared, except maybe the MAP.
Everything else would put you in ASP (with me).
The bad thing about SCCA classes is that they classify you based on the most extreme class that allows all your items, so if you do something as simple as remove your backseat, you go straight into SM2, and get a crap pax time.
I've started modding my car based on that: I'm doing all of the SP-legal mods first, then I'll do SM2 mods.

Z-man, you should be in ASP, not BS. If you add part of the M030 package you have to add everything to qualify as stock. That means every bushing or screw they use differently, all the sways, springs, shocks, etc. Of course, since you can add konis in stock, you don't really have to add the M030 dampers, you can just "replace" them with the konis.
I doubt anybody local would complain, but if you head to nationals this week, somebody would.

Z-man

Ag951: interesting. I thought sway bar upgrades were free. But reading the SCCA 'generals,' I see that only applied to the front sway bar, for the most part.

I guess if I get into SCCA Solo II, I'll have to swap back to my 16mm rear sway bar. I think I'd have a better chance with that, than compete in ASP, where would be other cars & mods that would make me uncompetitive. Since I run 99% with PCA - NNJR, my sway bar is legit in stock class.

Thanks for the clarification!

-Z.

Ag951

Definitely go back to stock. A single swaybar can't make up for the SP pax difference. A friend ran a Nissan Spec-V with a rear sway and intake only, and it tanked his scores.
You have to make almost every SP legal mod to make up that penalty.

Oh...a good stock mod that I discovered last month: a harness. A racing harness might technically be a safety device (and that's probably why you can use one in stock), but the way it holds you to the seat really helps you control the car in the curves.

adrial

I think this whole PAX thing is garbage...why not just use the raw times??

Ag951

Because it's a competition of driver skill, not purchasing power. If it was raw times, a moderate driver in a kart would beat a superb driver in a Geo.
People with slower cars would get disillusioned and stop going, and there would be less competition for everyone.
Pax is a good idea that was poorly implemented.

Z-man

I totally agree. PAX scoring and having different classes to compete in make the whole autox competition more equal amongst all participants.

Also: Ag951: I totally agree with you on the use of harnesses. I have them in my car for DE/track use, but they do come in REAL handing in the autocross: they allow me to use the steering wheel to STEER, not to just hold on to!!

Another "Mod" that will keep you in stock that is definately worth looking into: brake pads. Specifically, intermediate track pads: ones that don't require huge amounts of heat to grip properly, but ones that will slow you down in a hurry! (Like my KFP's, for example).

Yet another "stock mod:" Alignment settings. As long as the suspension geometery remains intact, tweaking the alignment can make a relatively big difference. The 944's max negative camber setting (without the use of camber plates) is around -2.5 / -3.0. By setting up a more aggressive camber (say, around -1.5), you can have more grip around the corners!

-Z-man.

PS: Good question and interesting discussion!

Ag951

The problem is they have to try to account for so many different cars. Not all cars get as much out of a sway bar change, after market header, etc., so they can't make a very accurate classing system, without having a complete set of rules for each car model. Autocrossing with a smaller subset of vehicles, like the PCA, reduces the flawed nature of the scoring, but doesn't completely eliminate it.

And I don't have to keep my left foot planted on a sharp corner, so I can downshift on the really tight ones.

Don't forget the SS brake lines. Any vehicle made before '92 (I think) can add SS brake lines in stock. And some high quality Motul brake fluid.

Yeah!!
I know for a fact the turbo can hit -3deg (see my sig ). It feels really nice around town, but I haven't checked it out on the skidpad yet. The first PCA event of the season was cancelled , so I won't get to autoX in it until the Oct 11th PCA instruction/competition weekend.

Rich Sandor

Man, our vancouver auto-x classes are so laid back..

we have: early air & early water & late-air & late-water.

Our philosphy is that we don't bother wasting 1/2 an hour on determining everyones classes - that's valuable auto-x time!!

I think we had more confusion and frustration when we used the NW-PCA S1/S5/P5/GTO/GTU/MU/etc classes at Whistler... no one knew what they were supposed to run in...

Ag951

We get more than 2 hours of daylight down here, so we can afford to spend the half hour to get a more accurate competition.