Dead spot in new starter... any solution?
09-03-2003, 05:23 PM
#18
Originally posted by Perry 951
Jason - Planning on being in the garage by 4:30... but we'll see about that. Date is at 7pm.. so it will be close.
Jonathan - Just rolling the car will not work, the starter would not be engaged. I could roll it while attempting to start it (engaging the solenoid and drive gear), and that might bump it off the dead spot.
Ice - Yeah, you don't want to hit the housing, but if you hit the mounting flange, it can knock it just enough to get it going. Let me know what you find for parts.
Kevin - Sounds like we have a similar problem. The solenoid is activating, so it is drawing some current, but far less than when the starter is operating. As long as you don't sit there holding the key in the start position, it should not damage the battery. I only drop to about 10 volts on cranking, 11ish when it flips out and will not roll over.
Sure.. parking on a hill is a no brainer, but what happens if there is no hill.. or no parking where I can get a good roll? Not a great option.
I guess all I can do is take the brush set out and rough up the armature with some emery cloth and try again.
Jason - Planning on being in the garage by 4:30... but we'll see about that. Date is at 7pm.. so it will be close.
Jonathan - Just rolling the car will not work, the starter would not be engaged. I could roll it while attempting to start it (engaging the solenoid and drive gear), and that might bump it off the dead spot.
Ice - Yeah, you don't want to hit the housing, but if you hit the mounting flange, it can knock it just enough to get it going. Let me know what you find for parts.
Kevin - Sounds like we have a similar problem. The solenoid is activating, so it is drawing some current, but far less than when the starter is operating. As long as you don't sit there holding the key in the start position, it should not damage the battery. I only drop to about 10 volts on cranking, 11ish when it flips out and will not roll over.
Sure.. parking on a hill is a no brainer, but what happens if there is no hill.. or no parking where I can get a good roll? Not a great option.
I guess all I can do is take the brush set out and rough up the armature with some emery cloth and try again.
So, is your solenoid sticking? I got a rebuilt starter once that had the soleniod piston spray painted. End result was that it slid inside the housing with considerable friction (as compared to a new soleniod). It would stick every once in a while. A new soleniod cured the problem.
I am waiting for a "remanufactured" starter from this place in Canada - probably need a cheapie core to send them back (not convinced that my starter is totally gone - would like to fix it so I have a backup). Will let you know about my experience with this guy.
Make sure you give youself enough time to get ready for your date!
-Kevin
09-03-2003, 05:48 PM
#19
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Nope... my solenoid works fine, but the motor itself is not spinning. I am home now, have garage clothes on, and wrenches in hand. Be back with an update in a bit.
09-03-2003, 07:21 PM
#20
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Woo Hoo... success!
I ripped that bad boy out and dissasembled the motor side. The armature had a little scoring, but was pretty clean. I went ahead and hit it with some emery cloth and cleaned out the ridges. The brush assembly looked good too, with just a little dusting. I decided to touch up the brush ends with emery cloth, cleaned with brakeleen, and lubed up the brush holders.
Then... when I went to assemble it, I noticed that I could not depress the solenoid very far (thus pushing the power washer into the power output pole to the motor). I think when I installed it at some point, I screwed the power pole in too far, and that would make the washer have poor contact, since it would be at angle. After backing it out to the point where it locked into the housing, I screwed the jam nut on it and hoped it would work.
I just buttoned everything up and cranked it a half dozen times. All is good, and I have 20 minutes to get ready for my date.
Off to the showers!
I ripped that bad boy out and dissasembled the motor side. The armature had a little scoring, but was pretty clean. I went ahead and hit it with some emery cloth and cleaned out the ridges. The brush assembly looked good too, with just a little dusting. I decided to touch up the brush ends with emery cloth, cleaned with brakeleen, and lubed up the brush holders.
Then... when I went to assemble it, I noticed that I could not depress the solenoid very far (thus pushing the power washer into the power output pole to the motor). I think when I installed it at some point, I screwed the power pole in too far, and that would make the washer have poor contact, since it would be at angle. After backing it out to the point where it locked into the housing, I screwed the jam nut on it and hoped it would work.
I just buttoned everything up and cranked it a half dozen times. All is good, and I have 20 minutes to get ready for my date.
Off to the showers!
09-03-2003, 09:49 PM
#22
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Originally posted by 89magic98
It's a little different on my car - in my case, the starter motor seems to be getting power, but because it's not turning, it drags down the 12 volts across the battery to 0. Really obvious because all of the other lights, etc go out. What do you think that might be? Sounds like a dead-spot as well, but with different symptoms.
So, is your solenoid sticking? I got a rebuilt starter once that had the soleniod piston spray painted. End result was that it slid inside the housing with considerable friction (as compared to a new soleniod). It would stick every once in a while. A new soleniod cured the problem.
I am waiting for a "remanufactured" starter from this place in Canada - probably need a cheapie core to send them back (not convinced that my starter is totally gone - would like to fix it so I have a backup). Will let you know about my experience with this guy.
Make sure you give youself enough time to get ready for your date!
-Kevin
It's a little different on my car - in my case, the starter motor seems to be getting power, but because it's not turning, it drags down the 12 volts across the battery to 0. Really obvious because all of the other lights, etc go out. What do you think that might be? Sounds like a dead-spot as well, but with different symptoms.
So, is your solenoid sticking? I got a rebuilt starter once that had the soleniod piston spray painted. End result was that it slid inside the housing with considerable friction (as compared to a new soleniod). It would stick every once in a while. A new soleniod cured the problem.
I am waiting for a "remanufactured" starter from this place in Canada - probably need a cheapie core to send them back (not convinced that my starter is totally gone - would like to fix it so I have a backup). Will let you know about my experience with this guy.
Make sure you give youself enough time to get ready for your date!
-Kevin
09-03-2003, 11:57 PM
#23
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i have done this a thousand times w/ other cars, take a hammer...EWe, and bang the large part of the starter, yes i said bang, and see if it starts, if it does, maybe after a couple trys, you need a starter. The brushes get a worn spot and it doesnt make connection, when you smack it, it does.
09-05-2003, 02:40 PM
#25
(Brian, question for you below.)
OK, I disassembled my starter, it really needed to be cleaned. The brush material plus some lubricating grease made a big mess.
I cleaned most everything with brakleen (thanks Brian for the idea), and am replacing the brushes tonight.
Brian, I have a question on how you followed emilysgranny's instructions:
"Brian; when you have the arm out ,take an old hacksaw blade and grind a hook in it and draw it through the insulator slots where the copper is. These get plugged and will short the winding out .Also clean the brush area good .The brushes may be just hanging up or cocking."
You stated you used emory cloth - was that to clean out the insulator slots on the copper part, or were you cleaning the copper with the emory cloth?
I think I know how I'm going to clean the grooves out. Probably get something like a dentist's pick.
But I was thinking that it might be better to clean the copper with electrical contact cleaner (possibly with a plastic scouring pad), in case the copper was somehow coated to prevent corrosion. Just sanding it doesn't sound like the right thing to do.
Thanks!
Kevin
OK, I disassembled my starter, it really needed to be cleaned. The brush material plus some lubricating grease made a big mess.
I cleaned most everything with brakleen (thanks Brian for the idea), and am replacing the brushes tonight.
Brian, I have a question on how you followed emilysgranny's instructions:
"Brian; when you have the arm out ,take an old hacksaw blade and grind a hook in it and draw it through the insulator slots where the copper is. These get plugged and will short the winding out .Also clean the brush area good .The brushes may be just hanging up or cocking."
You stated you used emory cloth - was that to clean out the insulator slots on the copper part, or were you cleaning the copper with the emory cloth?
I think I know how I'm going to clean the grooves out. Probably get something like a dentist's pick.
But I was thinking that it might be better to clean the copper with electrical contact cleaner (possibly with a plastic scouring pad), in case the copper was somehow coated to prevent corrosion. Just sanding it doesn't sound like the right thing to do.
Thanks!
Kevin
09-07-2003, 10:22 AM
#26
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kjp, your problem is battery, leads or connections, A good battery and circuit will not go to zero volts, it will blow a faulty starter apart instead, you are looking in the wrong area to solve your problem.
