OT: So much for truth, justice and the American way
08-29-2003 | 06:29 AM
#106
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,252
Likes: 2
From: Sweden
Originally posted by Danno
1. Lower drinking age to 13-15 years old: Looking at the German and British systems where any kid can sit down at a pub and order a pint or two, this has several benefits. First, the consequences are a lot lower. At 13-15yrs old, if you get drunk, what's the worse that can happen?
You drunkenly wobble your bike into the kerb and break an arm or wrist.
1. Lower drinking age to 13-15 years old: Looking at the German and British systems where any kid can sit down at a pub and order a pint or two, this has several benefits. First, the consequences are a lot lower. At 13-15yrs old, if you get drunk, what's the worse that can happen?
You drunkenly wobble your bike into the kerb and break an arm or wrist.
On a beatiful summer night when his 15 year old daughter and some friends walked from one party to another she didn't get that chance since she wobbled out on the road in front of a car and died at the moment of impact. She only had a two or three beers in here entire drinking carreer.
And I think you have the legal ages wrong as well.
08-29-2003 | 06:30 AM
#107
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 14,075
Likes: 3
From: Santa Barbara, CA
"You can get it in two ways, drink youself to it or inherit it. Just as with many other drugs all it takes is to make you brain think that it's normal state is with the drug and you can't get out of it - ever."
Yes, there's certainly something inherited from acoholic parents. But it doesn't follow the typical genetic pattern. Chances are that if your parents are alcoholics, you have 50% likelihood of becoming one yourself. This doesn't follow any kind of genetic inheritance pattern, so I suspect it's a learned behavior combined with emotional stresses. Just like children who are physically abused by their parents tend to turn out the same, I don't think there's a 'violence' gene that's responsible. A big push in the criminal-defense circle in the US is to show a 'criminal' gene that's predisposes one to becoming a criminal, hogwash! A lot of alcoholics get that way from the continual escape from life's pressures through drinking. A person's emotional make-up has a large part to do with this.
For these people, the cause of their tendencies towards alcoholism goes way further back than just the will and power to choose whether to drink or not. In many ways, alcoholism is just a final results of and symptoms of larger problems, often times outside of themselves and sometimes beyond their control. So the only power they have in the situation is to not drink.
Yes, there's certainly something inherited from acoholic parents. But it doesn't follow the typical genetic pattern. Chances are that if your parents are alcoholics, you have 50% likelihood of becoming one yourself. This doesn't follow any kind of genetic inheritance pattern, so I suspect it's a learned behavior combined with emotional stresses. Just like children who are physically abused by their parents tend to turn out the same, I don't think there's a 'violence' gene that's responsible. A big push in the criminal-defense circle in the US is to show a 'criminal' gene that's predisposes one to becoming a criminal, hogwash! A lot of alcoholics get that way from the continual escape from life's pressures through drinking. A person's emotional make-up has a large part to do with this.
For these people, the cause of their tendencies towards alcoholism goes way further back than just the will and power to choose whether to drink or not. In many ways, alcoholism is just a final results of and symptoms of larger problems, often times outside of themselves and sometimes beyond their control. So the only power they have in the situation is to not drink.
08-29-2003 | 06:40 AM
#108
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,252
Likes: 2
From: Sweden
Danno, I think that you are confusing criminals and alcoholics.
There are to many alcoholics out there that aren't criminal.
The 50% figure is also interpreted wrong by you. It can sometimes be 100% (if both parents have the gene for it) and it is important to remember that it takes a lot of drinking to get stuck.
You don't just wake up one day with and need to drink, it takes some time to get the brain reprogrammed and the only way to do it is to drink. For some you need to drink a lot often, for others very little a few times and all of the variations on the theme.
There are to many alcoholics out there that aren't criminal.
The 50% figure is also interpreted wrong by you. It can sometimes be 100% (if both parents have the gene for it) and it is important to remember that it takes a lot of drinking to get stuck.
You don't just wake up one day with and need to drink, it takes some time to get the brain reprogrammed and the only way to do it is to drink. For some you need to drink a lot often, for others very little a few times and all of the variations on the theme.
08-29-2003 | 01:11 PM
#109
Racer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
From: Cincinnati, OH
Andy;
While a little OT after 8 pages, I'll add a little relief and mention that
the plan is to meet tomorrow (Sat, Aug 30th) at the Shell station
(nearest to the exit) on Union Center Boulevard at 10am and caravan
up to Hooters for the GTG. All are welcome, of course.
So far we have the only three Guards red 944's known to mankind
are headin' up....any takers?
Stay the course Andy and see ya tomorrow.
...now back to our regulary scheduled programming.
While a little OT after 8 pages, I'll add a little relief and mention that
the plan is to meet tomorrow (Sat, Aug 30th) at the Shell station
(nearest to the exit) on Union Center Boulevard at 10am and caravan
up to Hooters for the GTG. All are welcome, of course.
So far we have the only three Guards red 944's known to mankind
are headin' up....any takers?
Stay the course Andy and see ya tomorrow.
...now back to our regulary scheduled programming.
08-29-2003 | 01:22 PM
#110
Nerd Herder
Rennlist Member
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,526
Likes: 5
From: Central Illinois. Cornfields a plenty.
Ahh.. the ultra-rare Guards red - Black combination!!
Ebay- I read the descriptions for a laugh!
Thanks for the change of pace- I was geting angry and depressed reading this.. at least Andy LEARNED! He deserves credit, not a public lambasting. If that would happen more we wouldnt have near the problems on the roads we do today.
Ebay- I read the descriptions for a laugh!
Thanks for the change of pace- I was geting angry and depressed reading this.. at least Andy LEARNED! He deserves credit, not a public lambasting. If that would happen more we wouldnt have near the problems on the roads we do today.
08-29-2003 | 09:16 PM
#111
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,252
Likes: 2
From: Sweden
Any reserves all the respect we can give him.. but I don't ... can't even stay sober enough to drive home so I guess I'll have to stay here all night..
Last edited by sweanders; 08-30-2003 at 08:26 PM.
08-29-2003 | 09:59 PM
#112
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Andy,
Congrats to your continued sobriety - may you stay that way with your contiuned hard work.
I'm a little confused about interlock priviledges. I'm guessing here but you can drive without restrictions as long as the analyzer is in place, or you still have restrictions regarding time and need? I just see the big picture of driving the P-car as more important than having a P-car. My last three collisions were caused by drunk drivers hitting me (once was my 951) and though I hardly drive it now (I have a daily driver for my 140+ miles/day) any thoughts to sell it are quickly squashed with a single drive. I didn't drive it for almost two years while getting it fixed as the driver had no insurance and I had switched it to liability only because it wasn't worth it for me to pay so much for an occassional car. If you truly cherish driving it over merely having it as a museum piece, then the analyzer is not an excessive scarlet letter (nor a permanent one) to wear.
Congrats to your continued sobriety - may you stay that way with your contiuned hard work.
I'm a little confused about interlock priviledges. I'm guessing here but you can drive without restrictions as long as the analyzer is in place, or you still have restrictions regarding time and need? I just see the big picture of driving the P-car as more important than having a P-car. My last three collisions were caused by drunk drivers hitting me (once was my 951) and though I hardly drive it now (I have a daily driver for my 140+ miles/day) any thoughts to sell it are quickly squashed with a single drive. I didn't drive it for almost two years while getting it fixed as the driver had no insurance and I had switched it to liability only because it wasn't worth it for me to pay so much for an occassional car. If you truly cherish driving it over merely having it as a museum piece, then the analyzer is not an excessive scarlet letter (nor a permanent one) to wear.
08-29-2003 | 10:43 PM
#113
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Cincinnati Ohio USA
Yeah, I knew this pot would stick around for a while, I'm not back to argue with anyone. I could put the interlock on the 944, I would prefer not to. My buddie is stopping over tonight to posibly buy mt T-bird so I can buy a truck to trailer it to races. I can drive any time anywhere with interlock untill my supension is up in jan of 2006.
sweanders, you deserve respect just like the rest of us, you are no better or worse that me or any of the rest of us. I hit my bottom and made it out(so far), you have not, I hope you do soon so that you can find a life that is better. When I drank, I was merely just exsisting, no life what so ever, I was 20 with a 944 and a good job, alcohol took all of this. I now have a 944 that I can't afford to put the interlock on and thus can't drive, a ****ty job and no money living with my parents. Life is alot better now than it ever has been, I mean that! Good luck to you, you'll find it, just keep looking.
sweanders, you deserve respect just like the rest of us, you are no better or worse that me or any of the rest of us. I hit my bottom and made it out(so far), you have not, I hope you do soon so that you can find a life that is better. When I drank, I was merely just exsisting, no life what so ever, I was 20 with a 944 and a good job, alcohol took all of this. I now have a 944 that I can't afford to put the interlock on and thus can't drive, a ****ty job and no money living with my parents. Life is alot better now than it ever has been, I mean that! Good luck to you, you'll find it, just keep looking.
