L Cubed

So last winter I was looking for a car to be a streetable track, i.e. one I can drive to events then run the autocross/HPDE and drive home. The suggestion was made to buy a track car, an 8v NA one. Though because I am a scholar of racing and race car setup I was interested in starting with a car ready to track and then add some suspension upgrades as I slowly grew my skills with the car to learn more about how each part adds up to the sum of the track car and how to continue to grow my driving skills with the car.

In March I bought an 89 944 S2 because I found one nearby for a great deal, it needed some simple maintenance at the time like new pads and rotors and new odometer gear. I repaired these items and took it to a few autocrosses and had a blast, I am definitely hooked on the 944 platform!

At the moment I am uncovering a lot of work that the car needs such a possible new torque tube (grinding noises, known when purchased), there are a few small oil leaks, and its being temperamental starting in the cold weather.
I originally bought the car to help get me into HPDEs and have a dedicated autocross car because autocrossing my daily driver caused problems in the past. Now I want to spend time/money driving and at moment I am spending more of my time/money than I initially intended trying to keep the ready for racing meaning it is taking a long time to get the car track ready and racing on the track. I love the car and I mean who wouldn't want an S2 as a track car?

This leads to my current dilemma:

Should I keep the S2 and just slowly work through these issues as I try to take it to the track? Or do I trade/sell the S2 for ready-to-go streetable track car?
What would you do if you were in my racing shoes?

V2Rocket

The S2 is too optioned-up and heavy a car to do super well in racing IMO.
An early 944 or 924S would be a better platform to run for those events, they are significantly lighter, cheaper to run/build and some more breakable parts say VW on them so they are easy to find

For example, recently there was a thread on the turbo forum about race car weights. An S2 is similar in weight to a 944T. Guys with stripped out 944Ts were about equal or still heavier than my early car with a full interior, full tank of gas and working AC.

L Cubed

Yeah that was my initial plan before I bought the S2 especially since I am also a VW/Audi Fan

The problem was I let my emotion get the better of me after hearing and driving the S2 over the NA. Also to be clear I don't plan on doing any wheel to wheel racing with this car, its meant to be a fun enjoyable driving experience that I can practice the art of race driving in.

V2Rocket

No doubt the S2 is a nicer car. Way more torque = daily driver friendly, it's got the turbo brakes and good (sporty yet comfy) suspension etc.

But Daily-driver friendly is not really dedicated auto-x. And a compromise car falls short in both categories...it comes down to how serious you are about having the fastest racer, or just to have fun.

L Cubed

Yes the S2 would definitely make a great DD but I have a Golf TDI for that.

So whether I keep the S2 or replace it with a different 944 or different streetable track car it won't be used as a DD. I would tow it to the track if I had the proper truck and trailer to do so, but i don't so I do need to be able to drive to events.

txhokie4life

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...track-car.html

You can't build it for the cost of this....

Mike

944s4me

It is always cheaper to buy used race cars. Buy the best car that actually has track history (log book with entries, finishes- not DMFs) you can afford.

No track history- treat it as if it were a pile of parts.

God lives in the details.

jwasbury

^this...

Today I am taking delivery of my 2nd race car...fully built, ready to go. Each my race cars were purchased this way, paid .50 on the dollar, or less. Turn the key, go on track, go fast. Time is $, and the most precious resource. I'd prefer to spend mine driving the car as opposed to building it.

kevin12973

I think the best thing for you at this point is just run the S2 as is and dont get caught up in buying go fast goodies. If your starting out, learning, you certainly dont need that stuff. That car is very capable in stock trim. Just maintain very thoroughly and upgrade to street/track pads and good tires. Stay away from racing seats because that is a slippery slope. If you do then you need harness, which leads to Hans, and a roll bar(not harness bar). Keep it real and save alot of money and in a couple years if you decide you want to step it up you can sell your S2, that would be stock, and get most of your money back.

Jscaramella

My S2 came at a very low price with a recent service it was also a very clean street car. In total I built the car for 19k, with every legal parts advantage in my class. A return on all the street parts reduced the cost by 1200.00. I choose to build my own because I enjoyed it, ovbiously having mechanical ability tools, welder etc. All reduced the cost significantly.
No regrets. Scouring the net for deals, flipping parts etc. All gave me enjoyment. If you want a project and enjoy doing these things then go for it.

However, dollar for dollar a pre built car, done right, is a savings and gets you on track. IMO nothing replaced the sense of accomplishment driving something I put together on my own, it wasnt about the money.

In the end it was well taken car of and resale was very easy, without a significant loss.

Done again, for that series, i would choose a 924 as a previous post suggests. Not so much for the money (the s2 was cheap to run imo) but for that models advantages within that class. Best of luck!

L Cubed

Thanks for the input!

I would definitely have bought a fully built race car if I was doing W2W. Instead I knew that I wanted to do autocross/HPDE to better my skills, I am not a novice but definitely still amateur.

For autocross, my S2 definitely needs some new bushings for the suspension. I can feel the wheels moving around and the body roll and pitch causes fenders to drag. So now the car feels like it needs a lot just to get to the next autocross which led me to my dilemma....

kevin12973

I would stick with what is required to pass pre-tech inspection. Any worn suspension bushings will come up on this inspection. Even the HPDE guys running expert group have relatively stock cars. Just thought in your situation it would make sense to keep it as is till you want to step up and buy a prepped car all sorted out. Its not just about the $, its a LOT of time, and missing out on track days.

L Cubed

Yeah, I am leaning towards that plan with some new Powerflex Black bushings to replace all the worn out ones

FrenchToast

Since you asked, you'll get a rant .

Personally I wouldn't purchase someone else's heavily-modified car (i.e. track car), without heavily inspecting it on a lift. I have seen too many poorly built cars. Perhaps I have a skewed sample size and have coincidentally only seen badly built cars. But I've been around the track enough to see hundreds, probably a thousand, different home-brew racecars. Patina is one thing, bad construction is another. Could I be exaggerating? Maybe, but after seeing firsthand some very sketchy stuff I now would have to aggressively inspect any modded car.

txhokie4life: Please note the above has nothing to do with your car (or anyone else on this forum) in particular - it is merely a general statement. However, I will comment that the last time I read the PCA rulebook I don't recall it stating a 4pt harness is legal for any type of HPDE. Most other clubs/organizations have the same stipulation.

While I can't quote any numbers, I don't think an S2/Turbo shell is much heavier than a corresponding NA 8V. Even stripped of it's options/interior, I think much of the weight difference is in the engine, larger wheels/tires, brakes, bodywork, etc.

Yes. But to me there's a catch (first paragraph).

If you do build it yourself, consider the following (other than obvious stuff):

Steel control arms
Steel lugnuts
Steering lock removal
Airbag removal (I say this because some HPDE organizations want airbags disabled when on track. Contact an organizer or instructor for more details as I don't really know)
Harnesses ideally work as a package with FIA seats and a cage
Installing front and rear towhooks if they are missing or not present (car dependent)

92TNTRacing

Well said, I all ways build for that reason and also because it's half the fun of racing.