stoked944

I got to ride in a awd twin turbo stealth last night. it seems like the breaking point as far as grip goes is alot higher than our cars. i mean i know we have rear wheel drive, but are most awd cars that much more superior in handling? for example, the eclipses, 3000gts, quattros, wrxs and so on. plus the awd launches are amazing. has anybody done the quaiffe differential mod to our cars, it seems pretty popular among vw's.
so my main question is this, stock OR modded, how can we compare to awd cars?

TMH

I could not believe the difference when I drove my '89 Carrera 4 hard for the first time. First off, that 3.6 liter 6 cylinder motor is pretty big when compared to my 2.5 liter NA. Power was incredible, both from a standing start and from mid-way in the RPM range. Some make comments about the C4 and problems with understeer. Never been an issue to me. This car rides like its on a rail, and does everything I have ever asked it to do without ever complaining. AWD makes a huge difference to me. I have never even thought about swapping ends like some inexperienced drivers do with a 911 (and I am in that driver category).

I have never driven another vehicle which even comes close to the combination of power and control I feel I have in the C4. I believe that the AWD is the most significant factor in this equation, but that big motor helps too.

Tom

Ag951

I don't think the awd would help cornering at all...on some surfaces.
It's a definite advantage on a slippery surface (due to rain, snow, loose gravel, etc). But on a smooth flat grippy asphalt surface, it probably doesn't help.
The high end Porsches are all RWD, as are all race cars.
As for the launch, if I remember my 89 R&T (where they preview TMH's model) correctly, I think the C4 puts its power down entirely on the rear wheels, until it's above ~20mph. I vaguely remember them saying there's a switch to engage the awd from a stop, when on a slick surface.
The acceleration numbers for the C2/C2S that I've seen are better than the C4/C4S, because of the extra weight.
A mitsi or scooby might benefit from a more even power distribution on the start because they're so front heavy. The engine and tranny are over the front axle in those cars.

88BlueTSiQuest

AWD car's are known for their launches at the dragstrip. You can make modified Turbo Eclipse AWD on street tires launch just as hard as most car's with an LSD rear-end and DOT Legal Drag T/A's. Not to even mention the fact you can still put slicks on the AWD car... I raced one that ran a 1.7xx 60ft. time, he was on the factory street tires. They just kinda take off like a rocket, with minimal tire squeal.

The 3000GT is the same car as the Stealth. I don't know how they all stack up to our car on the skid pad. But those AWD cars seem to stick to the roads quite nicely.

UDPride

I dont think the AWD has any effect on braking. From standstills though it doesnt matter what surface you are throwing it down, the car just goes. No wasted energy or spinning tires. Chirping of the tires is pretty much nonexistant. And once the streets get wet, its all over. You will pass Viper GTSs all day. I was pretty unsure of AWD myself. Having had a WRX for a year and a half I can safely say Ill never have another daily driver without it. You feel glued to the pavement at all times. Ive done 80mph when the rest of the traffic is doing 35mph in the slower two lanes in a driving rainstorm (we're talking rain so hard people are pulling off the highway) and felt completely within the safe zone of the car -- provided you dont run into any puddled water and hydroplane. Nothing will really help you in that situation. Some of my good fortune is due to good Sumitomo summer/rain tires I have, but when the weather goes bad, you get real impatient at everyone else "farting around" when you could be going about your usual business. A lot of this is real world driving though. If I was simply buying a pure sports car for the weekend, I dont think AWD would really be a major factor as I wouldnt get much use out of it. If I had a Carrera 4 I had to drive every day, it would mean a lot. If I drove a Carrera 4 2500 miles a year, Im not sure I would bother for my own lifestyle.

Tremelune

The only thing AWD will help you do is GO (if you have the horsepower). In a turn on a track your front tires should be 100% dedicated to braking and/or not sliding sideways. If you're coming out of a turn and you've got horsepower to burn, AWD will certainly help you come out faster.

AWd will never ever ever help you brake if your brakes are balanced. Indeed, the extra weight will make it worse. If you're purposefully braking your sports car with your transmission, you're wrong. I'm not talking about slowing to a stop light.

AWD definately has it's place. It helps you go, because you have almost twice the traction to put power down with. That's about it. Point-and-shoot rally racing aside, I'm willing to bet the tires on the Stealth had a lot more to do with its sticking than the front wheels pulling did.

Someone smart make a liar out of me...

MD951

AWD drive helps majorly in cornering, most of you guys have obviously never driven a 993TT or Audi.. if you get any wheel spin in a corner at all the AWD system transfers power to the remainding wheels, it is FAR superior to a 2WD system under any and all conditions period.

Driving an AWD car on the road is like being on railroad tracks, it's awesome. But, IMO.. RDW is much more fun, I love to drift my 951 around corners at 70mph and that is impossible in the S4.

Honkity Hank

AWD is a superior way to get power to the road, it helps in all accelerating conditions, no help in braking as stated before. The negative is the extra weight which can make an awd car slower in some situations given equallity in other areas. The reason most race cars are not awd is because of the rules not because it is inferior. (Look at WRC and SCCA ralley classes where awd is always faster) Especially in low grip situations the AWD is no comparo.

Techmonkey

AWD is only as good as the computer telling it what to do. That being said an excellent AWD system will always handle better than a 2WD system, because the computer will send just as much power to the front tires as possible without breaking traction. Resulting in better cornering and acceleration.

Just my $.02.

badcoupe

Most AWD is not computer controlled Mitsy etc. Your braking is all tied together (no bias beacause all four wheels locked together, Like a 4wd truck. I put a 75 hp nitrous kit on a eagle talon for a guy the car was a turbo and the nitrous basically made up for the lag. With nitto DR's on the car it pulled the left front tire on launch with a blistering 1.52 60 foot time. This was launching on the rev limiter with a aluminum flywheel and centerforce clutch. Stock turbo etc. A serious blast to drive. I think he has pics of the front wheel off the ground somewhere

kwh29

AWD, with the right diffs and/or computers controlling, _will_ help in braking. Cheapo AWD without (at minimum) center and rear viscous limited slips won't help at all in braking. Snazzy AWD like on the WRC cars performs miracles. In-between stuff like the Audis, Subarus, and Carerra 4 definitely makes an improvement in braking.

From the early 80's to 1992 Audi more or less conclusively proved that AWD is an advantage for racing even in dry conditions. Read a bit of Trans Am history to find out more.

--Kevin H.

pikey7

It's all swings and roundabouts really. If setup right, on a dry track, a RWD car can keep up around corners anyday. It's on a slippery surface that things get interesting.

The thing with AWD is the (usually) higher powertrain losses, meaning you need more power in the engine to put it on the road, it's the higher weight of the system (usually meaning harder to get down to minimum weight regulations), it's the higher complexity (either computer or hardware) that means there's more to go wrong, and it's the higher cost (either to put it in, or to fix things...... remember what a LSD costs?, well now double it!)

OK, rally cars use AWD. They're constantly on slippery gravel, ice, snow etc. They also have the facility to constantly monitor the systems, and change them when necessary at service stops. But if it's so superior, then why do F1, Indy etc cars not use it? Simple...... look at the nagative aspects in the paragraph above! Road cars don't need it.

Braking is all about balance. Front/Rear and Left/Right. When you hit the stop pedal, the weight distribution, braking distribution, overall weight, and overall braking power are all that matter. How does AWD help braking? It's not used when you're stopping (unless you're talking engine braking also now, but then if you use that, it's easy to dial in a bit more front brake to counteract). One thing I've noticed on 944's is that there are plenty of upgrades to Front Big Red's available. If thing's change that much, then why isn't there an upgrade for the rears too???

Rich Sandor

One thing I've noticed on 944's is that there are plenty of upgrades to Front Big Red's available. If thing's change that much, then why isn't there an upgrade for the rears too???

Just to make sure no one misconstrues that:

If you can storm down the street and lock up your wheels under heavy breaking, upgrading to Big Reds or whatever else will not decrease your stopping distance or increase breaking performance. For that, all you can do is put more rubber to the road, wider tyres or slicks. What big reds and other brake upgrades DO achieve is longer pad/rotor life, and consistancy on track. So with my 86 turbo brakes, they might start fading after a dozen laps or so, and i'd ahve to start braking earlier and earlier after every lap. Whereas with big reds, they maintain thier stopping power lap after lap.

pikey7

Rich, Absolutely right! Larger brakes = more power OR longer life/less fade. It's the same as putting power down in one way, if the rubber can't take it, it's no use anyway!

MD951

Pikey
"But if it's so superior, then why do F1, Indy etc cars not use it? Simple...... look at the nagative aspects in the paragraph above! Road cars don't need it. "

I think the real reason is that there are rules governing how these (F1, Indy, Etc..) cars are made and allowed to race.