Velvet951

Since all the race belts have to meet a certain standard, shouldn't they all be generally the same quality? Why then are some $300 for a 5 pt vs. $75. Is there a bad belt that meets race standards?

Dan Gallagher

name brand is always worth something, also camlock vs. latch & link is a price difference, sometimes the belts do or dont include the ends to mount them in your car etc. etc.

Ag951

DOT approval is one difference.
You can get something like this Schroth for $140 (I just ordered one yesterday), but it has DOT approval, so you can legally use it on the street.
Also the clasps vary. The Schroth has a regular seat belt like clasp that connects the two sides, while some have a clasp for each strap, or require you to attach them in a special order. I researched them over the past two weeks and came to the conclusion that Schroth is the best choice.
I wouldn't get a five point unless you have a roll cage, just in case.

Dan Gallagher

also companies like momo and corbeau make 2" wide harnesses that are cheaper than the 3" harnesses

txhedg

from my experience, the webbing and anchors are all about the same, the difference is in the locking mechanism. I have had both the latch&clasp type and the camlock type, and the camlock is WAY better. FUmbling with the clasp on a hot grid is a PITA....the camlock makes it WAY easier to get into the harness (and quicker getting out in the event of a fire.....don't ask how I know about that).

I spent the extra $$ for my race car and bought a Teamtech harness. They have built in shoulder strap padding, crotch pad (for 5 pt), and sternum strap. SOOOO comfortable, and safer with the padding and sternum strap, but also about $300. As they age, Teamtech will re-web them for you at a nominal fee, however. I highly recommend them. Safety is not something you want to skimp on imho.

I think the best deal I saw for the camlock 5 pt was about $100 one from Gforce at racerswholesale.com. Not as comfy, but probably perfectly safe.

and to echo ag951, I wouldnt go to a 4 or 5 pt harness unless you have a roll bar (at minimum) in the car.

Velvet951

What about just keeping myself put when I DE or Autocross, as this will be the main use of the harness?

Ag951

If you'll never use it on the street, the DOT approval doesn't matter.
I'd still get one with an easy clasp, just to keep getting in and out hassle free. And I'd make sure it's nice and strong, just in case you eat a wall.
You can find a really good one for under $200.
Go to the next local autoX or road event and check out what others have. I'll be doing that with seats Sunday.

Dan Gallagher

you want a roll bar to go with them no matter what, the reasoning is that if you dont have a roll bar and your roof crushes in on you the stock belts let you slide down but harnesses dont.

i like sparco camlock belts, not too expensive

Ag951

With a four point, you can slide down to avoid the colapsing roof, maybe.
I wouldn't go on a track without a rollbar/cage, but I'll risk it on an autoX course with a four-point harness.

UDPride

Id like to find some regular seat belts that are red and fit in a 911 and get rid of the stock black belts. Any ideas?

txhedg

I wouldn't count on that if you have the harness adjusted properly.....unless you are the size of a troll


Thats not the "politically correct" answer, but its probably a pretty good bet. Do you have a harness guide bar in the car? how do you plan on anchoring the "4th" belt?

W88951

If you only intend to do Autocross then I probably would not do a 4 Point harness. With the factory seats it is just not comfortable. I would put in a Lapbelt and also use the factory seatbelt. I drove that way for years in my RX-7. Plus you will find that some of the Top Autocrossers will only wear a lapbelt to keep them in the car. They reason that they require more movement than shoulder straps would allow.

As far as a Camlock being easier to get in and out of than a latch lock, I think that is very much a matter of preference. I personally use a Latch Lock and have been in cars with Cam locks and found them very cumbersome. Every manufacturer has a different way of locking and unlocking the cam. I think it comes down to cost and preference. If cost is a concern then a Latch Link is the only way to go. If you have an unlimeted budget then I would try and sit in a car(s) that have both.

As far as quality of belts. I will firmly place my life in a good 3" 4 point harness way before a factory seat belt. They only reason those belts will not be DOT approved is the manufacturer does not see an inteded market for street use therfore does not pay for that approval. Call me crazy, but I wear my 4 Point harness or Lapbelt everywhere I drive. I no longer feel comfortable in a sports car without it. In my previous car I was pulled over several times wearing my harness (without a roll bar). The Constable was inquisitive about it but did not give it a second thought. One time I think it actually saved me from a ticket. On my way home from an autocross with harness on and race tires in the back. Let me go with a don't do it again.

As far as difference in price. Some of it is in the mechanism (Latch vs. Cam) Some is just in brand name and image. (Sparco, Schroth, Simpson etc). Some of it is in certification. Is it DOT or TUV approved. Does it meet FIA standards or other racing organization and actually have a certification stamp with expiration date? As far as being legal for racing. SOLO II does not require a harness at all and even restricts them from convertables without a proper roll bar. The PCA rulebook states

"Five or six point 3" competition harness (with 2" sub belt), properly mounted are required. Harness cannot be mounted to seat or seat rail. Mounting must be to the chassis backed by large diameter washers or to the roll bar. No two harness straps can be attached to a single mounting bolt. No Y-type shoulder harness are allowed."

Hope this helps.

Ag951

I think a troll would have to worry about getting his head creamed, since it would stick a couple feet out of the sunroof. Trolls were large ogre-like creatures in Norse mythology.
I think with the type of rolls that are possible in autoX, the risk of the roof collapsing is minimal.



You don't need a harness bar (at least in autocross).
The harness' lap straps mount to the two lower bolts of the stock seatbelt, and the shoulder straps mount to the bolts for the rear seatbelt.

txhedg

Gee, am I getting my trolls and gnomes mixed up??? Dammit, that always happens




The one issue with mounting to the rear seatbelt anchors without a harness bar is that the angle of the shoulder belts from the top of your shoulder to the anchor point should be as close to horizontal as possible. If the angle is too great (lets say you were to connect the shoulder belts to the floor behind the seat, so the straps were almost perpendicular), in a crash, you run the risk of compressing your spine as the belts have the effect of "pulling" you down into your seat. The harness bar acts as a lever point, and it is what takes all of the downward force in a crash, and limiting the force on your back/shoulders from the shoulder harness to horizontal forces.

For autoX, again, not as big of a deal given the reduced risk compared to true track time, but just something to keep in mind.......I can't remember what is viewed as the "maximum allowable" angle, but IIRC maybe something in the 60 degrees from perpendicular is used as a rule of thumb (but don't hold me to it).

I cant remember what type of an angle you'll get in the 951, since my car didn't have a rear seat. I guess it depends how tall you are and how far the seat is slid back, too

Ag951

Different mythologies have different creatures.
For example Tolkien's elves were tall, while Santa's elves are short.

Interesting. I didn't know that. I'll get a roll cage before I hit the road course though.