Engine lock after head gasket job, '86 NA
09-30-2013, 01:52 PM
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Engine lock after head gasket job, '86 NA
Ok will not bore you with all the hills and valleys that got me to this point. Long story short, broken timing belt lead to another head gasket swap. Been trying to get the car running on and off for a couple weeks now. While doing a cylinder compression check yesterday the engine stuck. I should say locked, tried a pull bar with a good amount of pipe on it and no budge.
Removed all belts and tried again with no joy.
Have removed the cam tower this morning and all the valves seem to seat correctly by pushing down from the top. All are level.
My plan is this, drop the oil pan and see what I can see from the bottom of the engine. I would really like to get away with not having to buy a third new head gasket this year. Even though this one has zero miles on it I can't take the chance.
Advice welcome.
Michael
Removed all belts and tried again with no joy.
Have removed the cam tower this morning and all the valves seem to seat correctly by pushing down from the top. All are level.
My plan is this, drop the oil pan and see what I can see from the bottom of the engine. I would really like to get away with not having to buy a third new head gasket this year. Even though this one has zero miles on it I can't take the chance.
Advice welcome.
Michael
09-30-2013, 02:34 PM
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4 cylinder P-cars and the people that love them in the post-'80s afterworld 101:
....people keep saying 'these engines don't suck,' 'the design is fantastic,' 'they're bulletproof,' etc [despite the endless, mountains of proof that disprove these bizarre theories]..... in any case, hope you get this turd polished soon, and catch a break.... so the 4 cylinder Porsche engine can return to it's normal nickel and diming you to death mode for you....
the above is one more example why I classify head-off as purgatory.....
[the in between mode of the next disaster].
*head gasket sealer ftw [52* K miles post full HG failure/sealing the gasket with liquid poo]......
....people keep saying 'these engines don't suck,' 'the design is fantastic,' 'they're bulletproof,' etc [despite the endless, mountains of proof that disprove these bizarre theories]..... in any case, hope you get this turd polished soon, and catch a break.... so the 4 cylinder Porsche engine can return to it's normal nickel and diming you to death mode for you....
the above is one more example why I classify head-off as purgatory.....
[the in between mode of the next disaster].
*head gasket sealer ftw [52* K miles post full HG failure/sealing the gasket with liquid poo]......
09-30-2013, 02:56 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
Odurandina.....sometimes the only reason I can tolerate you is for your avatars.... J/K
F40, will it rotate to a certain point then stop or will it just not move at all? Had a race buddy suck a bolt all the way through the intake at idle to the top of the piston and it locked it up but could rotate it opposite. If it will go backwards, you may have something in the cylinder.
F40, will it rotate to a certain point then stop or will it just not move at all? Had a race buddy suck a bolt all the way through the intake at idle to the top of the piston and it locked it up but could rotate it opposite. If it will go backwards, you may have something in the cylinder.
09-30-2013, 03:07 PM
#5
Three Wheelin'
Od, are you forgetting the turbo produces 217hp stock, and prodcues about 265 with just a chip to accommodate 15psi?
Explain how it's not amazing that 4 cyl 2.5 liter did this in the 80's?
By the way, I just reached 114,000 miles in my turbo, enough to circumnavigate the earth about 5 times. Others have gone much farther!
Od, put THAT in your pipe and smoke it!
Explain how it's not amazing that 4 cyl 2.5 liter did this in the 80's?
By the way, I just reached 114,000 miles in my turbo, enough to circumnavigate the earth about 5 times. Others have gone much farther!
Od, put THAT in your pipe and smoke it!
09-30-2013, 04:18 PM
#6
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Need more info; were you cranking the engine over, then it locked up? Will it not rotate at all in either direction?
Personally i would just pull the head again. Pulling the pan requires removal of much of the front suspension and a subsequent wheel alignment afterwards. Unless you were planning on it, i would just take the head off again.. besides you should be able to do it fairly quickly the 2nd go around.
Did you at any point have the speed / ref sensors out or work over the bell housing, possibly dropping something or incorrectly gapping the sensors?
Do you have access to a bore scope? Remove the plugs and check the bores for heavy scoring, its possible (though unlikely) one of the rods bent when the belt initially broke.
Personally i would just pull the head again. Pulling the pan requires removal of much of the front suspension and a subsequent wheel alignment afterwards. Unless you were planning on it, i would just take the head off again.. besides you should be able to do it fairly quickly the 2nd go around.
Did you at any point have the speed / ref sensors out or work over the bell housing, possibly dropping something or incorrectly gapping the sensors?
Do you have access to a bore scope? Remove the plugs and check the bores for heavy scoring, its possible (though unlikely) one of the rods bent when the belt initially broke.
09-30-2013, 04:47 PM
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In 1987, to demonstrate the endurance of a standard 944 engine, a car was driven 500.000 kilometers over a period of 12 months. The engine passed the test without any problems.
For comparison:
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09-30-2013, 04:50 PM
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09-30-2013, 06:20 PM
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Engine ran fine after the first head gasket. Drive the car maybe 12 miles before the Kevlar timing belt snapped. Replace valves and belt with new head gasket. That one leaked. This is he third HG now that I think about it. Been trying to get her started since it was installed.
09-30-2013, 06:22 PM
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Odurandina.....sometimes the only reason I can tolerate you is for your avatars.... J/K
F40, will it rotate to a certain point then stop or will it just not move at all? Had a race buddy suck a bolt all the way through the intake at idle to the top of the piston and it locked it up but could rotate it opposite. If it will go backwards, you may have something in the cylinder.
F40, will it rotate to a certain point then stop or will it just not move at all? Had a race buddy suck a bolt all the way through the intake at idle to the top of the piston and it locked it up but could rotate it opposite. If it will go backwards, you may have something in the cylinder.
09-30-2013, 06:23 PM
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Need more info; were you cranking the engine over, then it locked up? Will it not rotate at all in either direction?
Personally i would just pull the head again. Pulling the pan requires removal of much of the front suspension and a subsequent wheel alignment afterwards. Unless you were planning on it, i would just take the head off again.. besides you should be able to do it fairly quickly the 2nd go around.
Did you at any point have the speed / ref sensors out or work over the bell housing, possibly dropping something or incorrectly gapping the sensors?
Do you have access to a bore scope? Remove the plugs and check the bores for heavy scoring, its possible (though unlikely) one of the rods bent when the belt initially broke.
Personally i would just pull the head again. Pulling the pan requires removal of much of the front suspension and a subsequent wheel alignment afterwards. Unless you were planning on it, i would just take the head off again.. besides you should be able to do it fairly quickly the 2nd go around.
Did you at any point have the speed / ref sensors out or work over the bell housing, possibly dropping something or incorrectly gapping the sensors?
Do you have access to a bore scope? Remove the plugs and check the bores for heavy scoring, its possible (though unlikely) one of the rods bent when the belt initially broke.
09-30-2013, 06:26 PM
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And for the record....I new Odur would just post I needed to install a SBC. But I agree he does have the best avatar pics on the forum so I don't mind.
10-02-2013, 01:24 AM
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remove the cam cover and loosen the cam bearing caps so that all valves close. try and turn now, when you know for sure that there are no valves jamming the pistons. If it won't turn and won't rock, you now know for sure that it isn't the head - since you pulled the starter, you know it's not the starter, but it could be something jamming the flywheel, look in through the starter hole and the clutch inspection hole. If you don't see anything, I think I'd pull the head and see if there is anything obvious about where the pistons are sitting or what's in (or not in) the cylinders. The NA engines are actually pretty rugged, it really takes a lot to hurt them
With the head off, if you get that far, try a pry bar and try moving the flywheel backwards, if something is jamming it or the engine it will probably release.
The other possibility is that you lost oil pressure and the bearing seized - but let's not go there right now.
With the head off, if you get that far, try a pry bar and try moving the flywheel backwards, if something is jamming it or the engine it will probably release.
The other possibility is that you lost oil pressure and the bearing seized - but let's not go there right now.
10-02-2013, 03:38 PM
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Removed the head today. Number 3 cylinder is toast, bad scratches in various places on the walls. Plenty of metal dust.
So am at a crossroads. I purchased the car for only $800 when I got back from Iraq. Ever other parts car I have purchased I got my money out of. I have a block from a 85.5 that came with its car, already stripped. The walls of it are good to the naked eye.
I have to decide:
1. to strip this car of all my goodies I have added onto it and scrap it, buy another running 944 beater and remake it with said goodies.
2. pull this engine and rebuild another from parts I have laying around the shop. Have everything, just would have to buy a complete engine rebuild kit.
I have enjoyed learning from this car but to be frank I won't be heart broken to see her go to the big car park in the sky. There are several things I would do different with the next one.
And for the newbies, I purchased this one with 130,000 and I put over 80k on it over 2.5 yeasr or so as a daily driver. My work being 70 miles away. These are tough little cars that will give you alot of joy. Heck the thing cost me $800 bucks, less than two payments of my 2007 Mustang before we paid it off. So don't let this story scare you off. One way or another, I will drive a 944 again.
Will post pics tonight of what I found. Right know I am heading back to the shop and toast my engine with a beer while I listen to Amazing Grace played over bag pipes.
And as always, opinion welcome.....except for you Odur who will tell me to put in a V8.
michael
So am at a crossroads. I purchased the car for only $800 when I got back from Iraq. Ever other parts car I have purchased I got my money out of. I have a block from a 85.5 that came with its car, already stripped. The walls of it are good to the naked eye.
I have to decide:
1. to strip this car of all my goodies I have added onto it and scrap it, buy another running 944 beater and remake it with said goodies.
2. pull this engine and rebuild another from parts I have laying around the shop. Have everything, just would have to buy a complete engine rebuild kit.
I have enjoyed learning from this car but to be frank I won't be heart broken to see her go to the big car park in the sky. There are several things I would do different with the next one.
And for the newbies, I purchased this one with 130,000 and I put over 80k on it over 2.5 yeasr or so as a daily driver. My work being 70 miles away. These are tough little cars that will give you alot of joy. Heck the thing cost me $800 bucks, less than two payments of my 2007 Mustang before we paid it off. So don't let this story scare you off. One way or another, I will drive a 944 again.
Will post pics tonight of what I found. Right know I am heading back to the shop and toast my engine with a beer while I listen to Amazing Grace played over bag pipes.
And as always, opinion welcome.....except for you Odur who will tell me to put in a V8.
michael
10-02-2013, 03:56 PM
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Don't put V8 in it. Take the second block and build it to last. 