FormulaOne10

These days it seems most people overlook the most reliable of minivans. I would highly suggest the Astro/Safari. Not is the price highly negotiable and cheap, but they also are very reliable and simple cars. Just make sure you get the limited slip differential for the winter as it is rear drive. We've owned 2: the first going 160,000 with minimal problems until somebody drove it on a downstate trip without checking the oil. After that incident we sold it and bought another that we have had no problems with. Otherwise I'd recommend the Honda Odessey, but there is a waiting list(might have decreased due to recent economic conditions) and a very unegotiable price.

jim968

I'll chime in again with a suggestion that a one to three year old used van (with careful PPI) is worth considering... regardless of which van. Buying late-model used vehicles can give you pretty massive $$$ savings.

With a very carefully chosen extended warranty, you're got pretty much the same security you have with a new vehicle.

What I'm hearing from friends is that all this 0% financing on new cars is only when you pay full list, so do the math carefully there...

Of course, buying used, you do sacrifice bragging rights....

Jim and they're always worth big bucks, right?

Thaddeus

Thaks for all the input, guys. I appreciate it.

Jim, the strategy you suggest is exactly what I did with the Windstar: buy something nice (I thought), about 2 years old, and sock some of the savings into an extended warranty on the engine/drivetrain. Hasn't helped because of the kinds of stuff that's constantly breaking: brakes, power locks, windshield wipers, heater, 4 factory recalls, safety belt latch, trim pieces falling off... you get the picture. And I'm compulsive about maintenance too, so it's not like things are let go on this Windstar..

Anyways it's a good strategy if you buy a good vehicle and I'll employ it again. Leaning towards a 99 Odyssey... maybe...

Thaddeus

Skip

I never thought a minivan thread would last so long and get so much attention

I'm a Ford person, and have the 2000 Windstar SEL... but am starting to not like it (tranny feels weak after only 30k, and I've never been too happy with the seating and the trim... not to mention all the damn recalls... mines been in the shop 5 times for recalls = one they screwed up!). So Thaddeus, I'm following the trend here and looking to unload it. In fact, and by coincedence only, the advertisement starts in the Trader on Thursday.

My other Ford is completely satisfying, but also for sale. 90 F250XL 4x4 Supercab Gas 460 5-spd (if anyone's interested in the PacNW). I wish I could stick with Ford for the long-term, but it looks like they have some quality issues to work out (as if any company doesn't). Maybe I'll get the wife and kids some good quality hiking boots and a pull-cart.

BTW, I test drove and was going to buy the new Explorer when they first came out (dealer torqued us, so we backed out). They are a suitable replacement for the minivan, now that they offer the third seat (like the durango, but nicer IMHO). The engine, transmission, and transfer case are ALL NEW... and get this... built by ZF and Getrag! The new Explorer drove VERY nice compared to the Windstar. The third seat is very well engineered (except for the cheesy cargo deck when folded) and they lowered the rear deck by 7" to allow for leg room. I'm only 5'10", but fit in there nicely. They also offer the V8, but it's not much of an upgrade from the tough V6 they're using this year.

I'm undecided what the replacement for the van will be, but I'm quite positive it'll haul the car trailer, have 4wd, and a third row seat. The truck simply sits and sits until I need to haul something... what a waste, eh. My kids are gonna need shifter karts soon, so it's time to think about that

Good Luck... don't get the Kia... you gets what you pays for methinks. YMMV

Skip

TomH

Yeah, KIA ranks right up there with another marketing brand fiasco. Chevy NOVA, which in spanish means "doesn't run"

Crackhead944S

This isn't OT. Just under the wrong forum: Cayenne

Mark
'88 944S

Thaddeus

Well, as a New Year's day present to me from the Ford Motor Company, my 'check engine' light came on today and won't go off. Back to the shop.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH

That puppy is history.

Thaddeus

marky522

KIA SUCKS!!!! This is actually a funny story, my friend got a KIA SPortage for his 17th B-day and if that is the quality they put into all of there cars your in trouble, This thing was ALWAYS in the shop, and the shop was 1.5 hours away, he only put about 7500 miles on it in the 2.5-3.5 years he owned it. Yes the guy was spoiled his dad gave him whatever he wanted, but thats beside the point, he wasnt to hard on it, it never got put in 4-wheel, but the transfer case had probs, so that got fixed, icant remeber all the probs but i know that the windows never seated correctly in the rubber, and the check engine light never went off. Anyway, he finally got sick of it and he has MUCHO MUCHO monies, he went (it was bright red) and had yello stickers(those static stick ones) put all over it with phrases like KIA Sucks, been to the dealer 15+ times and only 5000 miles on it etc. and drove back and forth in front of the dealership for 7hours 3 days in a row and actually walked up to people looking at them in the lot and got them to leave.... ANyway the dealer gave him all of his money back and paid for the sticers, the custom leather int. and the custom stereo system. all in all he paid $23,500 then about 2500 in extras and the dealer gave him that plus $500.

So i would have to say go with the HONDA.

Just my .02 cents

Mark

951and944S

Skip, it's a joke in the tranny industry, that the unit in your Windstar, barely limped off the showroom...
Sorry, but I work on them way too much...

Thaddeus, for what it's worth, I'd get the GMC Safari/Chevy Astro.. It's rear wheel drive, and the Chevy 4.3 liter makes plenty power. It's basicly a 305cid V-8 with 2 cylinders missing, so the engine design is old and proven. The later models have a large metal reinforcement under the front bumper that's tied all the way to the engine X-member, so this should eliminate your crashworthy concerns.
The Olds sounds like a viable alternative, but take into account that Olds is being cut by GM in the next year or so.
Don't know why, I worked at an OLDS dealer, when I was younger, in the mid 80's, and as far as American iron, it's the best thing going...

Terry

Eric

Thaddeus,
I second Marky's post concerning the UN-reliabilty of the KIA. I had the unfortunate experience to have a "top-of-the-line" Sportage as my rental car in Texas--I only used it for four days, but the thing was a piece-of-junk. Granted it was a rental, but with only 8,000 miles there were alot of squeaks, rattles, hesitation, and just an over-all cheap, tinny feel.

Eric

Tom R.

We had two Astro's in my household over the years. First was a new '86 that with 108k got rear ended/launched down the block by the NY Times delivery guy. Sold it to a friend who sold it later with 165k. Other than an intake manifold gasket no motor work.

The second was an 89 (replaced the 86) with 66k, sold it to the same friend with 135k. both are still on the road going strong.

Problem is it drives like a truck, unless you like driving a truck. Also, the crashworthiness in front is probably worse than the other gm products.

The fact that oldsmobile is being discontinued means nothing other than maybe a lower resale way down the road. The parts are all the same as the chevy & pontiac. Add the 6yr 60k warrantee (3/36 for identical chevy/pontiac) and you get a lot of value for the money.

Get the GM money from a friends GM card, and the $1,500 loyalty check olds sent out to owners of 99 & newer cars last year, and you can get a very sweet deal. We used my mother in laws $1,500 from her leased alero. Told her i would pay her back if she got another gm when her lease is up. Lucy me, she's leasing an Acura next month.