daly944

I recently talked to the people at europroducts, I saw their ad in Excellence Magazine, and they told me that I could get signifigant horsepower gains from new msds headers, cone filter conversion, chip, and test pipe. They said that I could get as much as 50 rear wheel horsepower. My question is are these claims very optimistic, or can I get signifigant performance gains for 600 bucks?

Ahmet

Their claims are very very optimistic... I'd guess more around 17hp at the wheels (about 20-25 tops at the flywheel).

PS: On the otherhand, $600 for headers, cone filter conversion, chip, and testpipe is a great deal.
Ahmet

Tabor

header, intake, cams, exhaust could get you closer to the 50HP, but probably more like 30 HP.

My friends 924 NA puts down 127 HP at the rear wheels. That is with CAM, exhaust, and headers. Stock was 115 HP at the crank.

Jason_86_951

Has anyone done this conversion to their NA before, and if so, Have they done a dyno to prove these claims? If its true I'd love to try it on my 84!!!

Living for on-ramps!

Ahmet

On an 84 I had full Jacobs ignition (coil the msd unit, wires), split fire plugs, borla cat-back, test pipe, some head work, and a mild cam. It was not worth it, and all the work I did got me a tad less than 25hp.

I seriously doubt if all mentioned would get you anything over 25hp, certainly not more at the wheels.

If you're looking for more power, I'd suggest raising the compression, with possibly head work (keeping the stock cam). I think the stock ignition, fuel injection, and exaust are up to task.

PS: A straight through muffler should give you a few hp for cheap, but please don't get an ugly tip for it! www.magnaflow.com has great mufflers, for cheap.
Ahmet

PSUice944

I've pretty much given up on a search for MORE horses, I'm just looking into BETTER horses

K&N, and throttle cam now

Exhaust next (MSDS /test pipe /good muffler route)

Ditch a/c

Re-do Intake (maybe minor ram-air?/def. K&N cone)

MSD or Jacob's ignition?

Cam and/or custom chip?

Lightweight clutch/flywheel when I need to replace?

After that all i could do would be Nitrous but I'm not gonna play that game (or I'd get a Turbo by then!)

Now after most of that, I bet I'd be REAL lucky to have 175 at the rear wheels... but that should be a nice and strong 175

Don't forget the handeling (and driver skill)upgrades, thats you best SPEED for the dollar!

Olli Snellman

I installed about month ago Europroducts chip to my friend '88 944na.I installed olso K&N cone filter and we have betterflow muffler wit the cat test pipe installed at the same time.He does not have headers in his vechile.I suppose we get between 15-20 extra horses.At least my friend seems to be satisfied.I have Europroducts chips&shims in my '88 951 and it's much faster than it used to be with stock set up.I have dealed few times with Europroducts and iam very satisfied.They deliver parts olso to europe in few days and customerservice has been # 1 class in all cases.
Olli

Puhlode

What i've done is:

• Cut the finger off the throttle response cam (look in the archives) which makes your car FEEL like you got more horsepower

• My mechanic tuned the timing belt and balance belt a bit tighter - maybe 1-5 hp (don't know exactly)

• Got a chip from HPChips.com on ebay (europroducts carries these) for 103.50 including shippping - 14 hp

• MSDS header and air filter which i installed myself (313 including shipping + 60 to have meineke weld the bottom of the header) - 20 to 25 hp

So if you did everything yourself, which is not very difficult (figure 5-6 hours labor), it'll cost around $480.

I've definitely gotten around 30-40 horsepower. I don't have a dyno, but this just from the feel i get accelerating in both my 86 944na and my dad's new beetle and comparing their power to weight ratios.

Tom

I'm kind of surprised at these discussions as I would think that if 1 was idiot and 10 was demigod, a Rennlist rating poll of Weissach engineers would be 8 or 9, the LeMans victories, the 917, 935, 956 etc didn't happen by accident. So I don't think you find that much power left on the table just because of a few production compromises ready to be cheaply and simply restored. When Porsche wanted to increase 944 power from 163 (Euro) to 190 they went to a 16 valve head. They certainly wouldn't have done that if all it took was a header, an air filter and a reprogrammed eprom! The changes mentioned can refine some of the details and provide different choices than Porsche may have had (e.g. for a time US cars were required to be made for 87 octane fuel) but they aren't the source of major change. The improvements are not always additive as headers may give x HP improvement and an air filter may give Y, but the two together won't yield X+Y and may reflect only the biggest change.

When the 944 motor was designed, I think we see that it was pretty well optimised so there aren't a lot of things we can cheaply and easily do to make improvements, mostly what has to be done is higher compression and more CC's (called turbo's and S2's).

Tabor

Tom: There is a memeber on this board who get 226 at the rear wheels out of his 944 S2. What does that say about Weissach enginers?

1. You can increase peak HP by sacrificing low end torque with a free flow exhaust.

2. You can use a hotter cam grind that may or may not pass emmisions. Also, you can make sure they work best in the same RPM range as your free flow exhaust.

These are things that the enginers at porsche CAN NOT do.

Like I said. I have a friend who gets an honest 127 HP at the rear wheels of his 1981 924 NA. From the factory it got 115 HP at the crank. He is up ~35 HP (at the crank)!

Dave

I agree for the most part, but there are always gains to be found. "Production compromises" can be made for a number of reasons, reliability, longevity, safety, fuel consumtion, noise, and cost (the factory has to draw the line sowewhere on a production car, as opposed to a race car)
There is however, a frustration in knowing that a VW/Audi 1.6l to 2.0l or for that matter a Honda of that displacement can be modified to produce equal or greater power than a Porsche 2.5l or 2.7l. there has to be a small increase hidden in there somewhere.

That being said, chip,(almost felt the difference) K&N,(couldn't believe the difference) next up exhaust, the muffler is on it's way out anyway. Small steps perhaps, but it's nice to know it's just a little better than stock.

Tom

I never said the Weissach engineers were demigods, but I think they are pretty damn good and that they have left most of us somewhat less on the table than some other makes (and a 175 HP VW isn't simple or cheap either if you start with an 8V). There are improvements available, they just frequently aren't easy, simple or cheap. What was done to the S2 or the 924 to achieve those gains? I would guess that they were somewhat involved, more than an afternoon in the back yard. My car has a chip and a K&N (when I put it back in!) so I'm not opposed to those things.

Tabor

Tom: The 924 has cams, exhaust, and headers. No intake work. Possibly a P+P. His mechanic "Rebuilt the head" and "reground the cams". Other than that, headers, and exhaust.

I don't know about the 944 S2. He said it took over $10,000. His name is Exotic HorsePower.

Dick Ruddell

Europroducts is the best vendor, by far, that I have found for the 944 Porsche. After being rearended by a Mack truck at a stoplight, Europroducts got me all the necessary parts in a hurry at a great price.

I installed their chip (big improvement), MSDS cone filter (Nice looking but no noticeable improvement over my previously doctored oem air box) and have ordered the MSDS headers with an ANSA exhaust - will have installed next week and let you know the difference.

I was really surprised at the difference their chip made.

951carter

porsche out a turbo on the 2.5 and gained 70 hp. i dont think a few simple bolt-ons will net the same results. i have an n/a with extensive work done to it, euro 10.6:1 pistons, head shaved to max tolerance, cam, etc. etc. and it is not even close to my 951 when it was stock. the best hp gain for a n/a is to sell it and purchase a 951. that can easily be done with the money that you would dump in the 944 and never be able to get it back out. in the long run you will have a FAR superior car. this is coming from someone who dumped over $10,000 in a 944 before giving up and buying a 951. i still own that 944 as there is no way i will ever sell it for even 1/2 of what i have in it. 944 n/a's are great cars, but if you want power you need a 951.

Carter
85 944
86 951
87 944
88 951